Really Simple SSL, a popular plugin used on more than five million sites for installing SSL certificates, handling website migrations, mixed content, redirects, and security headers, has added a new feature in its most recent major update.

Version 7.0.0 introduces vulnerability detection as part of a partnership with WP Vulnerability, an open source, free API created by Javier Casares with contributions from other open source, freely available databases. Once enabled, it notifies users if a vulnerability is found and suggests actions.

“Really Simple SSL mirrors the free database with its own instance to secure stability and deliverability, but of course provides the origin database with an API to enrich, or improve its current data,” Really Simple Plugins developer Aert Hulsebos said.

The new vulnerability detection feature is not enabled by default, so users will need to enable it in the settings. A modal will pop up where users can configure their notifications and run the first scan.

When emailed about a vulnerability users can manually respond with an action or set the plugin to automatically force an update (when available) after 24 hours of no response. There are other automated actions the plugin can take based on how users configure the Measures section of the settings.

For the past several years Really Simple SSL has been providing SSL certificate configuration and installation via Let’s Encrypt as a first pass at securing WordPress sites. To finance this for the free users, the plugin also has a Pro version that handles Security Headers, such as Content Security Policies, which are highly complex for most and not easily configured.

“We figured that with our reach we could impact security on the web as a whole, by adding features in order of impact on security,” Hulsebos said. “So vulnerabilities, after hardening features specific to WordPress, was next.

“The nature of our partnership with Javier and WP Vulnerability is sponsoring the efforts of WP Vulnerability and appointing a security consultant ourselves to this open-source effort to improve, and moderate the open-source database daily. WP Vulnerability does not compensate us, nor does it have a stake in Really Simple SSL. Vulnerability detection is available for everyone and always will be.”

Because Really Simple SSL started as a lightweight SSL plugin, Hulsebos said they have taken a modular approach to minimize impact on users who only want or need certain features. Following the launch of the new vulnerability detection feature, the plugin’s authors plan to add login security with 2FA to better secure authentication on WordPress sites.

Last but not least! This is the final episode of our post series about the new direction we plan to take regarding the BuddyPress project. If you’re just discovering this series, we advise you to read about the 4 first episodes of it.

This post is finally focusing on the feedback you shared with us here & there about the BuddyPress community & BuddyPress contribution.

Key feedbacks about BuddyPress community

A new theme for this community website is a must-have, I agree. Although our current theme does a good job, it has remained unchanged for years. We had begun to work on this but in a way that wasn’t in line with my conviction on this topic. That’s absolutely fine with me as long as we ship! It didn’t happen unfortunately, we didn’t manage to attract enough contributor energy. So I’m back with my conviction: we should build the Block Theme I told you about in episodes 3 & 4 with the secondary goal of using it for BuddyPress’ network sites! In my opinion, we’d kill two birds with one stone $\"🥌\"$ .

Ideally, all BuddyPress code should be available on our Trac environment. It’s fine to use GitHub as it’s using Git which is more intuitive than SVN, but at some point (eg: when the feature is stable), the code should be mirrored on Trac. We need a central place where people can open tickets, contribute to any parts of our project and be sure to be rewarded with our lovely contributors badge. Although I believe optional components (or any new Add-ons) should live in their own repository on the WordPress.org plugins directory, I also think they should primarily live into our Trac when it’s about contributing to their code. This way it will be easier for us to maintain all Add-ons making sure they behave nicely with each other when they are all activated. The confusions about where to contribute to the BP REST API experience convinced me that maintaining it on Trac once a stable version has been released (or included into Core for this API) is the right move to make (not to mention the fact I need to explore many different places to credit all contributors to a major BuddyPress release).

Contributors shouldn’t be confused about where to contribute to BuddyPress, there’s only one $\"☝\"$ URL to know: https://buddypress.trac.wordpress.org/.

Documentation is very important and, let’s face it, we’re not good at it $\"📕\"$ . The codex is not updated as frequently as it used to be, the « wiki » model where everyone can contribute to docs is no more efficient.

The first 4 to 5 months of 2022, we’ve tried to organize contributors meetings to update the codex. The results were not at the level of our expectations:

I believe we need a Documentation leader $\"👨‍🏫\"$ to organize this part, lead a documentation team and carry on the work we started on splitting resources between two targets (end-users and developers) :

We have recently decided to include a docs subdirectory to our main BuddyPress repository. This is where documentation (and its history) will primarily live from now on! This move reflects the fact we acknowledge documentation is as important as code.

And we’ll reward documentation contributors just like code contributors with props & a BuddyPress contributor badge on their WordPress.org profile (as shown above).

Our support forums is another strategic area we absolutely need to be better on. Some figures about it are very impressive, eg: there are 127,716 posts inside the How-to & Troubleshooting category. Do we still need all these posts? I’m sure we don’t: some posts are probably about very old versions of BuddyPress and can be misleading nowadays. We should archive what’s no more up to date, have a specific tag for resolved questions, get rid of duplicates, etc. There again, I believe we need a Support leader to tackle all manner of improvements and manage a team of support contributors.

I believe it’s what’s at the root of the 3 last key feedbacks. I can understand some frustrations you shared because I’m feeling the same regularly when it comes to contributing to WordPress code. As a contributor it’s difficult to be pushed back for reasons we do not agree on or that we don’t understand, to see a ticket postponed indefinitely or even worst to be ignored. I personally try to always write a few words in my ticket replies to say « hi, thanks for your feedback » or explain why I’m not sure we should do what you’re suggesting because I value your contribution & I know it’s important for you. We can agree or disagree, we can change our minds, we can take bad decisions, the most important is to act at some point with BuddyPress community interests in mind. We can always act again to revert some mistaken changes. We all learn from our mistakes and I’d rather make a lot of mistakes than stay still. Here’s my advice if you strongly believe we should fix an issue or add a new feature: have it built and share it with us as patches or pull requests. Most of the time doing is half deciding!

Yes we currently have a « low number of contributors » and yes I believe BuddyPress deserves more love $\"❤\"$ . Again you are all welcome to express yourselves on code, documentation, support, events, etc. Don’t hesitate to contribute even if you just started BuddyPressing, we’ll always help you and believe my experience, you’ll learn a lot. I had no ideas about PHP Object Oriented programming, PHPUnit, Continuous Integration, React, SASS etc.. I’ve learnt all this contributing to BuddyPress.

Oh, one more thing: let’s meet during a BuddyCamp, a BuddyPress online meeting or at least do talk about BuddyPress during as much as possible contributor days or WordCamps! If you need help with your contribution table or with your slides, don’t be shy or afraid: ask us about it here!

Props $\"🤗\"$ !

Many thanks for your feedbacks, it’s a great first step, what about contributing to your ideas with us as a next step?

If you haven’t visited the WordPress Pattern Directory lately, it may look very different from when it launched two years ago. At first there was an emphasis on getting the community to contribute to the resource but the directory has now passed more than 1,500 patterns.

Contributors are making changes to provide a more curated experience ahead of the inclusion of a new Pattern Directory Explorer that is still in progress. A recent update to the Pattern Directory alters the homepage and category pages to show curated patterns by default, a change that has been a bit confusing for some when returning to the directory.

The curated patterns are those by WordPress.org – the core bundled patterns. Community-contributed patterns are available as a filter in the dropdown of the directory’s menu.

There are only 46 core patterns, so some category pages tend to look a little sparse and far less colorful than when community patterns are selected. At the moment, having curated patterns display by default does not offer the best experience for users coming to browse, as Pootlepress founder Jamie Marsland pointed out on Twitter. Automattic-sponsored contributor Rich Tabor responded that there is still more work to be done on providing a better curated experience in the Pattern Directory.

“This change also prepares to support the Pattern Explorer in the editor,” Automattic-sponsored contributor Kelly Choyce-Dwan said in the announcement. “It’s still in progress, but it will be possible to search through community-submitted patterns directly from the editor.”

Choyce-Dwan referenced an effort that is currently underway to bring a new flyout to the patterns tab of the inserter inside WordPress, making the modal a place where users can more easily explore and access patterns from the directory.

There are also related discussions on how themes could create pattern bundles, enabling the possibility of users filtering by theme. In this discussion, Automattic-sponsored contributor Anne McCarthy suggested these pattern bundles could be automatically submitted to the directory upon the theme’s approval, which would make it effortless for theme authors to contribute them.

Updates to the Pattern Directory’s filtering are part of the redesign work on WordPress.org and more discussions are happening on the Pattern Directory GitHub repository.

WordPress.com has been known to experiment with its pricing from time to time, and the platform announced another major change today. Users on the Free plan are now able to use monetization features without upgrading.

In the past, WordPress.com users who wanted to earn money on their websites by collecting donations, creating a newsletter, or selling items or subscriptions, had to be on one of the paid plans. These monetization features are now available to all users on all tiers.

The fee structure varies, based on the user’s plan. Transaction fees are the highest for Free users at 10%, but it gives creators the opportunity to see if they can make money without it costing anything upfront. Commerce plan users ($70/month or $45/month billed annually) don’t pay any transaction fees. Stripe also collects 2.9% + US$0.30 for each payment made to a Stripe account in the US.

Self-hosted WordPress users already have many free plugin options to monetize theirs sites but with that comes the requirement of knowing how to maintain and update their own sites. WordPress.com’s offering is targeted at creators who just want to get started making money online. The company is inching closer to being a one-stop shop for websites, especially as it makes a play for former Google Domains customers who are looking for somewhere to host domains after theirs were sold to Squarespace.

It’s important to note that creating a full-featured online store is still restricted to Business and Commerce plans. Using Pay with PayPal to accept credit and debit card payments via PayPal is also only available via an upgraded plan.

WordPress.com’s pricing page has not yet been updated to reflect monetization features as being free – i.e. the Personal plan still lists paid subscribers and premium content gating as an upgrade. It’s possible the team hasn’t edited that page yet or this may be another pricing experiment.

Expanding the availability of monetization features is likely to be received as a positive change, since users are not losing any features that were previously free. Instead, they have the opportunity to see if they can monetize and then adjust their plans based on their comfort level with the transaction fees extracted.

Up until yesterday, the Gravatar (Globally Recognized Avatar) blog lay dormant for nine years, the last post chronicling how the team set out to create a Gravatar app that somehow “morphed into a Selfies app.” Communication went silent after that, although the Twitter account posted occasionally.

The service has pivoted to become “a personal digital business card” where users can link to various apps and websites that help to establish their identities online.

Gravatar announced this week that it has launched new payment features for profiles. Users have the option to add links for PayPal, Venmo, and Patreon. The Gravatar team is looking at adding Cash App and more providers in the future.

On mobile, profiles appear with new “Send Money” and “Share Profile” buttons. Each profile has its own unique QR code that can be copied and shared.

The payment accounts show up as links that visitors can click through. Users can also display links to cryptocurrency wallet addresses, including Bitcoin (BTC), Litecoin (LTC), Dogecoin (DOGE), Ethereum (ETH), XRP, and Cardano (ADA).

Profiles can be customized with a background image, photo gallery, social links, and links to verified services.

Gravatar is used by Slack, Atlassian (owner of Jira and Trello), GitHub, Stack Overflow, and Disqus, serving millions of requests per day. Another new major user is OpenAI, which displays users’ Gravatar images when chatting with ChatGPT. The service is also integrated with every WordPress install, and an Automattic representative confirmed there are no plans to change this.

Automattic reported that the company does not receive a cut of any payments passed through Gravatar links, nor does it have financial partnerships with any of the payment providers. The company also has no visibility into the transactions that happen through Gravatar payment links.

During the past nine years, the small Gravatar team has been improving how profile pages look, adding services that can be verified, working to improve the hashing and security of data, and maintaining the infrastructure required to store and serve so many images and profiles.

“We aren’t currently working on a Gravatar app, but it is something we are considering,” an Automattic representative told the Tavern.

After the Selfies app was retired, some of the code went into Jetpack and is now part of the app. Jetpack users can manage their Gravatar profile information and avatar photo inside the app.

Woo AgencyChat Live with Jimmy Rosén and Shadi Manna June 22, 2023 Thanks to our Pod Friends for their support

Corey Maass and Cory Miller continue the development of their new WordPress plugin, Crop.Express. In this episode, they discuss the importance of finding personal fulfillment, embracing the journey, and enjoying the process of pursuing hobbies and personal projects. They encourage everyone to reevaluate their definition of success and find meaning in the act of creation while also cherishing the connections and collaborations that come along the way.

$\"🔗\"$ Mentioned in the show:

$\"🐦\"$ You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:

Transcript

Session 18 Corey & Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live

[00:00:23] Cory Miller: Excellent. All right everybody. Welcome back to Corey and Cordy launching a pro WordPress product live session 18. And we’ve had, we were just kind of in prep for this real quick, just talking about a little of the things that’s been going on in our lives. It’s always fun to talk real life with a great person like Corey.

So, um, this time we’re just gonna kind of talk about catching up. We’ve been out kind of the last two, maybe three weeks I wanna say. Yep. And, um, I have been on, uh, uh, last week I was at CLOUDFEST in Austin for post status. Then we extended and went on a Epic Clark w Griswold type. Um, Road trip. Got to see Carlsbad Caverns.

Um, and, and they were closed. Yes. No, dead ants on the roof of the minivan. When we did render vans, I had to go Griswold South. Um, but I know you’ve had things going on too, so, um, that’s a little snippet for me just trying to kinda get things a little bit better sane for me work-wise. And, um, I think that’s in preparation for the.

[00:01:36] Corey Maass: up to. Yeah. And on my end, so it’s, I’ve, so I’ve got, you know, one, one main client and, uh, I have a monthly. They, they ask me to stay within a window of, of how much I work and what, uh, what I actually like about that is I tend to work a little less the beginning of the month.

Um, and then, uh, which lets me work on side projects or lets me work on the house or whatever. Uh, Um, and then towards the end of the month, you know, the days get longer to make sure I hit my quota, um, and maximize my budget. But, um, so at the beginning of the month I wound up helping my dad drive from South Carolina up to Maine, um, which is a really fun road trip with dad.

But, you know, and of course the, the client website goes down when I’m the farthest from my computer. Uh, you know, sitting at a restaurant in, uh, Fredericksburg, Virginia, if you ever have the opportunity, it’s a beautiful little place to stop. Um, but anyway, and then you can probably hear from my voice. I think last week I begged off because I was sick as a dog.

Um, And it’s funny, it actually, you’re like, oh, it’s been I think two, three weeks and I’m like, it feels like it’s been months. Cuz I spent at least, uh, a few days last week. Literally just in bed in a NyQuil haze, you know? So it felt like weeks went by and, um, you know, and then you come out of that and you’ve gotta scramble to make up work and, um, get caught up on life.

And, um, and then for me time, um, Always means house projects. So we’ve built another, uh, 11 times eight. So 88 feet of fencing. No. And then we turn a corner, so about 120 feet of fencing, stockade, fencing, cuz we’re getting a new foster dog. Um, and uh, so setting up a room for him and anyway, yeah, it just gets crazy.

And, uh, and so I think you and I touched. Space briefly last week and, and said, okay, so, you know, that’s fine. We missed a week or two. Let’s, let’s start, um, moving forward. I was like, all right, you know, I’m still working on a review of, uh, the product. I’ll get you a new version for post status. I don’t think you heard from me until nine minutes ago.

Uh, that never happened. So, yeah. You know, but it’s like, and I hate to. It, it’s easy to fall into like, well, it’s not out yet, so it, you know, there are no expectations other than our own. Yeah. Which is true. Um, you know, but it’s also like, I mean, this is, this is part of why we do this, right? Like, yeah. We’re, we’re at least part of our, our aspirations is, is freedom, uh, to make our own choices, to manage our own hours, to work on what we wanna work on.

Um, which also means, I mean, family comes first and health comes first, and Yeah. You know, and, and paying clients come first when you’re at this stage. So, you know, these are just things we have to juggle and, and keep trying to make progress. I mean, it says everything to me that. You and I at least are like, okay, let’s keep talking once a week.

Where are we at? You know? And, and cuz I have other people who I’ve worked with who many, many other people who, who ghost or who just wanna stop. There’s, there’s inherently so much shame in all of it that the moment they miss a day or a deadline or don’t hit the mark in some fashion, don’t want to talk about it.

You know, I have friends who we’ve been talking about, Collaborating for years talking about like music or art or whatever. And, and now we, we, we’ve gone months where we’ll talk every week or every month, you know, how are you, how are the kids, da, da da. And we literally won’t, we won’t talk about the subject now because there’s, you know, because we didn’t, one of us didn’t move forward with it.

There’s shame associated with it, so, you know. Definitely none of it’s that important, you know?

[00:05:56] Cory Miller: Yeah, exactly. Like we started with really good intentions and openness. Um, what it occurs to me is just kinda your references back to music and bands and stuff is like, I’ve not, I, I played an instrument when I was in like middle school, but I’ve not been in a band, but it’s occurs to me.

It’s like, it seems like that you’re, mm-hmm. Stru, you know, struggling to kinda get something going. And then there’s seasons of life that happened. Um, this, this stage of my life and my career, I really see more of the seasonal aspects of life. Yeah. Better than I ever have. And you go. You know, just things you don’t, you can’t anticipate, or if you tried to, you’d have another set of problems.

And, um, it’s just like you said, like we’ve got other priorities, but, uh, it’s important for us to keep talking. I, I think too, when I think about entrepreneurship, I think there’s like part real hard work just doing things, trying to do it consistently, getting things out there, getting the next thing, and then there’s this bigger part.

Which is, maybe somebody would’ve called it luck, you know? But it is like magic. You know? You stay around doing something. Maybe bands operate like this, I don’t know, but like you, you got enough interest, you know something’s there, you just haven’t figured it out yet. And then a magical moment, and I say magic cuz it’s like oftentimes in my career, specifically my professional career as an entrepreneur couldn’t have planned those things, man.

They just happened, you know? Um, however, I might have tried to take credit for them. They just happened and it’s like the reading I’ve been and work I’ve been doing too personally is like creativity. You don’t control creativity. Those really magical moments we’re talking about, they kind of blossom out.

And there was somebody I was just like, well, Anna, who runs feeder bars, Lindsay and her have been friends for a decade, you know? Anna tried so many things over the years, so many things, and then Vita Bars was the spark, the magic that made it happen. Mm-hmm. Now, now she’s full-time with it and she’s got employees and all that kind of stuff.

So like all that time it’s kinda like learning the piano. People go, oh, you’re at the piano. You’re doing this beautiful thing at the wedding, or whatever it is. They don’t think about all those years spent. Right. You know, in the practice of it, and it’s kinda like that moment too. It’s like, I’m dribbing for a second, but do enough things to get to a moment that, that you probably didn’t plan.

I think most of us, at least the entrepreneurs I know would say. Yep. That’s about it. Absolutely. Yeah. However, we like to think we control it and plan it. We don’t.

[00:08:59] Corey Maass: And there’s, there’s time. Sometimes you, you, you ha you just have to let time go by. It’s like, in music, it’s one of the hardest things I’ve, I’ve had to learn.

It’s like for years I made music and put out music, made music, and put out music. And then I actually started writing music that people were like, oh, this is a summertime song. It’s the end of the summer. We’re not gonna put it out now. That’d be dumb. So we’re gonna sit on it and you, and it’s like in actual pop music, you can find out that there, there were pop songs, but huge, huge hits.

And in our minds, you know, you’re picturing, you know, Taylor Swift yesterday was in the, in the recording studio and then today you’re hearing the song cuz that’s cuz music can be live. Um, and in this day and age, sometimes that’s true and it’s a truer than it used to be. It used to be that, you know, a band would go into a studio and produce an album and it would take months and yada yada, you know.

But a lot of the times thing, tunes or tracks or albums are actually held back. To try to be released strategically. It’s like big movies that sit on shelves for, you know, years potentially, because they’re like, this is a Christmas day blockbuster, we’re not gonna release, you know, or a summertime when all the kids are outta school type of movie.

You know, we’re not gonna release it on the second day of school on a Tuesday. That’s dumb, you know? Um, but we don’t, we don’t really think about that, but, There’s sometimes there’s strategic reasons and sometimes like this where it’s like, I’m a lot better about it than I used to be, especially since, um, years ago now.

So for a while I tried to make music an actual career or second career, um, and it really broke my heart. And so I stepped away from it for a while, and then when I was getting back into it, this is where having an amazing spouse is worth everything. Lindsay and I sat down, my Lindsay spelled with an A, sat down and, and she’s like, okay, so you, you know, you wanna get back into music.

Great. Like, how do we, how does it not break your heart again? And one of the things that, that. Came outta that conversation was me being able to articulate like, okay, I’m not taking it as seriously this time, it’s a hobby. Mm-hmm. And, and so suddenly a lot of things changed. One, you know, I couldn’t just go out and, and buy new instruments or, you know, throw money at it the way I used to.

Sure. But it also meant that like I could work on, like, I have found that I make a lot of. Music in the fall and then tend to not make any music, but it, but a lot of that music that I finish, I can like leak out again, a track a month or I can wait until summertime and put it out or whatever. And so it’s like I’ve got these big waves rather than it just being, you know, picturing this straight line of productivity.

Um, and I think it, that kind of goes for this, this stuff too, like, This stuff. Uh, entrepreneurship side hustles. They’re, they’re side hustles. And for a long time I, I was like, I want this to be a day job. Still would love it. I’d still love my own product to be my primary focus. Then it’s a job that’s very different, right from, um, side, side hustles, um, ideas, putting out little apps, little ideas, um, little products.

I mean, um, so. And so it’s, it’s picking things up, putting things down, um, and, and these days being okay with, again, letting some time go by or occasionally changing priorities even for a, a little while. Um, cuz there was a time when. I remember one time in particular that I was like, I was in between paying client gigs and came up with an idea [00:13:00] for an app and was like, okay, I’ve gotta crank this out and then it’s also gotta make money.

And it was like the dumbest little idea. I won’t even share it, I’m embarrassed. Um, but it was like, it was an app that nobody wanted, you know? It solved a problem that nobody had. It was just an idea. But I remember like, Going, this is the first time where I, I, it has to make money. And I was like, it’s never gonna make money.

Like, and I’m, so, I’m putting myself in danger here. That’s dumb. You know? Um, and that’s not to say that there aren’t entrepreneurial journeys. With VC capital or, you know, we’ve gotta double down and, and make this our full-time gig and all that stuff. But it’s like, at least for me, I find often that I’m, if I’m making decisions from a position of desperation, of, of need.

That I’m not gonna make the best decision, you know, cuz my priorities, I can’t have any, I can’t have proper perspective on it. So, stepping back for a few weeks, honestly, what I look forward to is going back into my code, realizing that I did everything wrong and cleaning it up and then it’s a better product.

And, and you know, are we the worst off for having missed a few weeks? Maybe. Who can say nothing’s obvious? Um, you know, but again, you know, just trying to keep moving forward with it.

[00:14:19] Cory Miller: I think it’s like when we’re thinking about bands and hit music or products and entrepreneurs think about, you know, with or, and Anna and yours.

My experience in this is like, If there’s enough of a fire to keep it going. Mm-hmm. You know, just enough. It doesn’t have to be a bonfire. There’ll be times of that for sure, but, but then mostly it’s probably just. Sometimes a little candle, sometimes just a little mini campfire. But if there’s enough in fuel in there that there’s something here.

I think time is on your, like you said, as time goes by, time is on your side because yeah, it’s only a matter of time where th where things kinda move and shift and the, the market, the world where you’re like that. Some of the classic stories, the person I’m thinking of, I think it’s a product company and how it came out.

It’s just a recent example, but the classic ones were in Founders at Work where you almost stumbled into, backed into what became the hit thing. But you couldn’t have kind of planned that. Right. Um, where you were just keeping on a path enough, knew something was here, didn’t thought you had a beat on it a couple of times, and then just really it was just.

The fire was stoked long enough where something did really hit and it became this, it, it became its own thing, I guess. Yeah. Lot of the, and I’m not, go ahead. A lot of the entrepreneurial stories I hear, they aren’t like the VC route. We saw a big market and we went after and we got a big money. Uh, that’s a, that’s an outlier I think, um, for the, Millions of us, the rest of us, I think it’s mostly backing into something, staying around long enough to find the opportunity that really fits.

[00:16:09] Corey Maass: Yeah. Chipping away at it, having, having fun with it, working around real life needs, family, money, mortgages, healthcare, you know, that kind of stuff. And it’s like, and that’s kind of the difference. Like I, I have friends who I. Are, have always wanted to do something. And I’m like, so outside of their job and, and so I’m like, so do something, you know, talking art, music, entrepreneurship, whatever.

And it’s like you just, you, you, you have it in you or you don’t is one aspect and then the timing is right. Where it’s like you have that drive and you look around and you’re like, okay, right now I’ve got a couple hours a day where I’ve got. Whatever commitment you need, you know, to work at it. And so, um, and I think you and I also, I mean this is, this is the warm and fuzzy moment, but it’s like you and I also I think, have looked for an opportunity to work together for a long time.

So it’s like we will continue to be friends and, you know, hopeful partners in something kind of always, you know. Yep. Um, I do have to say that. We have to keep the fire burning at least long enough to, so that I get to rock the swag at WordCamp us. That’s true. These are the, these are the real important things.

[00:17:40] Cory Miller: Um, yeah, a absolutely. I know. Um, no, and I think that’s the other part on, down to this is, you know, at the base I enjoy our conversations. It it, it’s this hot, crazy hobby we might have of. Seeing what’s out there, seen, seeing something following the path down it. And, uh, I still believe in the product. Yeah.

Um, but it’s funny, it’s like I believe in the product, but I also believe in the path that might lead to something else. Yeah. Because, I mean, well, we’re on our second iteration of a product. Like, not even same product, there’s similarities. Mm-hmm. But like, we went down this path to here and I think it just adds to the ongoing conversation that we’re having is something’s gonna happen.

Yeah. And then there’s a flat, simple, practical byproduct. All of this is that we’re having a conversation live and sharing our philosophies, sharing our thoughts, sharing our actions, um, all these things that has another byproduct that could lead us in another direction altogether, which is good. Yeah.

[00:18:53] Corey Maass: right, exactly. I mean, it’s the part, being part of the same network overlapping concentric circles. Um, And, uh, and kinda seeing what comes out of it. Cuz the other, I think the other thing I’m, I’m thinking in from the perspective of somebody who’s listening, who’s like, right, you, you know, you are both established.

You have, you know, other income streams or you’ve got your networks, you’ve, you know, and, and you’re also putting a product out there. Like, I still see people on entrepreneurial forums that are like, you know, somebody’s gonna steal my idea. And, and we have gone the other direction and, and obviously we’re not the first, but, um, of, you know, just brazenly putting it out there and taking our sweet time.

Let’s be honest. Like if we were other people, if we had venture capital, if we, you know, Didn’t have, you know, responsibilities and mortgages and things like we’d eat ramen and we’d have cranked this thing out years, uh, months ago. And, um, and there’s absolutely the chance that somebody listens and goes, oh, that’s a great idea.

And, and comes in and, and, Steals it and releases it before we do. Um, you know, but it’s still, like you just said, it’s all part of the journey. We’re going to put our own twist on it. We’re going to put our own experience on it and, uh, and continue to iterate on the project, the product too. So when the product does come out, like it’s very much ours.

And it might overlap with other people’s, but frankly it already will. Like, that’s the nature of. Pretty much any product. There’s no, there’s, there’s really, you know, almost nothing that hasn’t been invented. Um, and I also, another, uh, thread I saw recently again on, um, I think it was Reddit, one of the entrepreneurial ride along, or, or one of those subreddits, um, That people were concerned about not having an idea.

And everybody else was like, just you, you don’t, you know, okay, don’t, don’t steal an idea and reproduce it. Like that’s boring. But you know, if you can build the better mousetrap, if you can build the better to-do list, if you can build the better time tracking app, uh, you know, whatever, do it. Like, that’s how most.

Competition starts as, as these pretty subtle little differences. Um, and then you listen to your users, you listen to your own gut, and you end up di I feel like you end up diverging more and more and more. Um, you know, and or you’ve got, you’ve got a network that, that you can tap into that existing client or existing products can’t or whatever.

So, um, You know, it’s all, I guess I, these days I view it, I view it as kind of as a game, which is more flippant than it probably sounds, but it’s like you’re wheeling and dealing, but there’s times when you win and there’s times when you lose. God. I’m being very metaphorical here, but, um, you know, but it’s the, the.

I view it as an ebb and flow, which is, uh, again, I think for me the, the way that I had to phrase it a while ago was like, this is a hobby. And, uh, and so it’s, it’s meant to be fun. Um, and that isn’t to say that everything we do has to be fun cuz, and, and, or that I don’t take it seriously, but, um, but it gives you, I think, a little more perspective.

You don’t have, I don’t, I don’t have board members that I have to, or, you know, or stockholders that I have to appease. Um, And I don’t have, uh, you know, I don’t have to burn the, the, the candle at both ends, um, to make ends meet if there’s a bug. And I’ve got users that are depending on me, that happens with my apps or my plugins once in a while, but it’s honestly like once in a while.

That’s fun. I don’t wanna do it all the time, but it’s like, oh, I’ve gotta do a little hackathon and, and you know, figure this out until 2:00 AM cuz a bunch of people are depending on me. That’s fun too, you know? So,

[00:22:45] Cory Miller: Yeah. It occurs to me it’s really a low pressure and stress for us, which is what we both need.

Right. Um, having a little bit more, I mean, I guess that’s the definition of a hobby, right? You know, enjoyment without the stress and pressure. Yeah. When it switches from hobby. Oftentimes it counts with stress and pressure. Yeah.

[00:23:08] Corey Maass: Well, and and it’s interesting cuz like I, I worked at startups, you know, it’s like I’ve done, I’ve done a lot of work in WordPress, um, and there’s been a lot of overlap.

But I also, for a long time specifically was working for and with and at startups, um, of different natures. Um, and some of it was WordPress work and some of it was not. But there, there, and I was in New York City for a long, long time, um, so-called Silicon Alley. Um, during the WeWork stuff, I think I’ve mentioned that before.

You can actually see me in the WeWork movie and, um, and all that. And I was surrounded by people who were hustling all the hustlers and, and all that stuff. And it’s like, Most people were chipping away. I mean, almost like, like almost anything. It’s a, everything’s a bell curve, right? So most of the people on the bell curve were just chipping away, you know, and they weren’t burning themselves out, but they weren’t also only working a day a week or something.

And you had people who were working very, very hard. And you did have people who were there just for the lifestyle and honestly spent all day just playing ping pong. Um, and were there for the beer kegs, you know? Um, But working at different startups, like I’ve worked at startups where it was all hustle, hustle, hustle, and we’ve gotta put in long hours.

And, um, and I, I found that I got out of those pretty quickly in part because I would, would burn out. Um, and I think it would be different if I had been in charge. Um, but like the one main startup where I was CTO was. Um, I think there’s a cultural difference here. Um, but it was in Nashville. It wasn’t in New York.

So there’s, um, there two things were different. We were not in the hustle bustle of New York City. Nashville’s a little more easygoing. Um, but also we were generally all, you know, in our thirties and older, we weren’t all a type. Hustler entrepreneurs. Um, and then, uh, stereotypically, uh, down south you’ve got family values are, uh, or at least the family itself is prioritized higher.

And so we, there, we absolutely put in some long days, but for the most part it was. A priority of the founder and subsequently everybody else on the team that, you know, you wouldn’t, if it could be done tomorrow, if it was five or six o’clock, then fine. Do it tomorrow. You know, keep chipping away, make good progress.

But, um, you know, but you didn’t, we didn’t have to burn ourselves out. Uh, we weren’t gonna really get anywhere by burning ourselves out. And, and we did just fine till we ran outta money, which happens with startups. Um, you know, but it, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t always have to be that crazy atmosphere. Yeah.

[00:26:02] Cory Miller: can’t help but think there’s a shift going on globally too, with work.

[00:26:07] Corey Maass: Um, what, sorry, what, what was it like at, like, ithe or, you know, some of the, the bigger places you’ve worked?

[00:26:13] Cory Miller: The biggest place I have been be beyond like liquid web would be, um, I was at a seminary and I think there was 150, 200 people employed by the seminary.

Maybe that it’s too much. No, I actually, there’s a hundred, 150, um, that, that was just a very academic setting, so it was money, always money. So, Um, I loved it cause it was a learning stuff, but as far as like in the past, um, you know, I worked at newspapers, so it was always deadline. I think it was more startup, you know?

[00:27:00] Cory Miller: Which I think is why I probably liked entrepreneurship is just the deadlines and product is, it was so fulfilling to come. At the end of the day. But as far as values and stuff goes, I think I learned more in my leadership from what the not to do what I didn’t like, the obsession with whatever the goal was at the expense of people and just realistically, like what are we expecting people to do?

You know, I could, my truck. Get it all, get it up to 150 miles per hour and get into the red line, then it’s eventually gonna break. And I don’t think you can do that. We try to do that with people. Um, but I took a lot of those lessons leadership wise. I had, um, probably some things I go, I’m not gonna do that ever.

My last job before I started iThemes, um, I worked for a really amazing pastor. The one that kind of refreshed my optimism that. There could be one who at the time, the way I understood the Bible was be just a shepherd. You know? Um, he was really awesome. I really, I, I took his archive as a leader into, into I themes or eventually when we grew on our team.

But you’re right, the first, first couple years, um, it was just fun and new. It was creating stuff. With hopes and dreams and thoughts and ideas and, uh, it was messy. Um, it was messy, but we got to do some cool stuff. We did like create an office that eventually grew to about 5,000 square feet and got to, like, my dad actually drove up.

From about two hours from where he lives from us and came and helped me, helped us demolish some of the walls that were up at this place. Cause we wanted more of that bigger open thing and we went to IKEA and get all the tables. And I think about all that initial time, very romantically, very affectionately, because it was just, we didn’t all know.

We didn’t know what we were doing. I sure as hell didn’t know what I was doing, but it was fun creating something that. What would our expression look like? And so I would say for the first three years it was just kinda hanging on and having fun with, yeah, doing some real stuff. Um, there was electricity in the air and uh, with a whole set of problems that developed out of that.

And then I think when we hit about a million in revenue, I couldn’t manage the team by myself. Um, we were up to at least 10 people by that time and. I think things got more serious and probably professional, um, in the sense of, okay, you know, we, we had health insurance probably I think our first year. As soon as we hired the first couple employees we needed to get health insurance type of thing.

And uh, but I think that year something was different is like, we’ve got something here. Yeah. Lining in the bottle. Let’s figure out how to protect it, grow it. Maintain it. And um, and so we needed some of the structure in there. Um, my value as leader though, was always, like, I did a talk early on. I was like, I wanted to build a tree house.

I wanted to have a tree house, and I wanted to invite all these cool people to play with me in the tree house. That’s what it was the first couple years. And, and some really good stuff came out of that. Um, you know, we didn’t fall out of the tree house and break her arm. Um, mostly, and then it was, it was shifting of like, holy crap, like look at this thing, we gotta figure out that.

And then, but when it really serious was toward the end when it was like, oh, there was more children of our employees than there were employees, and that was responsibility barrier. And then it’s like, house gets a little serious, you know? Yeah.

[00:31:11] Cory Miller: so yeah, I’m. I look back at that time very fondly and nostalgically.

Um, cuz I remember it was toward the end of the year. No, it was after the first of the year. And I got invited to be in, uh, entrepreneurs organization and said, well, you need a million in sales. And I remember going to our accountant like in January and going, okay, where do we hit? And we were like, $70 over a million or something.

And I thought we did it, but here’s how weird it was. More treehouse thing is like, That money didn’t flow directly to me. That was, I wasn’t swimming in the lap of luxury or anything. It was like that childhood c childish feeling of I get the high score on Gallagher. Oh wow. We did it. We did it. You know, and, uh, [00:32:00] but what’s, what’s crazy related to the whole entrepreneur journey is I think that was probably, I.

Those circumstances and timing and backing into that was just ideal, obviously. But I go, it wasn’t all luck, right? It was both. It was all luck, all hard work. You know? It was both. Um, cuz I’ve since then tried to recreate the magic experiment, you know? Yeah. It was cool. My partner came in, I think it was our first year, we had our first office, and I would buy these, sorry, I’m these plastic tables from Sam’s Club.

Mm-hmm. Basically picnic tables, you know. Yeah. And I was like, these are our desks. I held onto that for the longest time until we got our next office. And Matt was like my co he was like, Time to time to probably upgrade from the white desk. And I was like, no, I don’t want to. I did eventually. Um, but I think that was part of that magic right time, right place, right?

People were partners, right. WordPress. Um, but it, I that those conditions were really conducive to creativity and magic and pulling. People were pull. Pulled in to that, like Christine was one, um, I think it was our second or third team member, man, changed the change, solidified the entire direction of the company and.

Um, huge, uh, different people like Dusti Bolton, Matt Danner, and Kristen Rutten, and different people that poured into our orbit. I go, wow, this is cool. So like when you talk about band, I go, that’s what my band was. Mm-hmm. Because it’s just like, we just made really good music for a long time. Yep. Uh, but how do I recreate that?

That’s been the obsession for the last five years. Uh, until I just go, that was done. That was there. Yeah. That was album. I laid, we laid, excuse me. And it’s on to new music, right?

[00:34:03] Corey Maass: Yeah. Or yeah, arriving at a different thing, different voices. You can’t just recreate the same thing. Music’s always the perfect metaphor in, in entrepreneurship, ownership and programming.

And I think there’s a reason why so many of us are into music or are musicians or whatever. Um, but yeah, and I think that’s, That’s what a lot of, like, I, I was really into all the entrepreneur stories for a long time and I’m glad I listened to a bunch of the podcasts and, you know, and whatnot. But you can’t recreate somebody else’s story can be inspired

[00:34:46] Corey Maass: Oh hundred percent. A hundred percent. And, and, and some of it is good advice or, you know, in certain situations you’re like, oh, you know, I remember this thing. It’s like, like reading a playbook, but you still have to know what plays to apply or whatever.

[00:35:01] Cory Miller: I, so when I le met Lindsay and in like 2010, which was that year, we hit a million, um, we started this thing that, um, was called Startup Sofa.

[00:35:13] Corey Maass: I’m sorry, I’m laughing because you know, you’re, She’s clearly in it for the money. Um, you know, yes. That year, you know, you were walking around being like, uh, my company just turned a million. You know what? Beautiful women want, want, want me now? She, she,

[00:35:30] Cory Miller: she remembers. She goes, no, you know, we were dating when.

You hit your first six figure month. And I was like, Uhhuh, I realized everything got better with you. It did. Um, that’s the other way

[00:35:44] Corey Maass: she sees it. The she sees it the other way around. Yeah.

[00:35:47] Cory Miller: And it. And honestly, candidly, it did, everything did get better when you just had some like, like while we’re doing this together, not apart, right?

It’s right. It’s just better together. I’ve said that with post status. All the other things, it’s like, God, as much as I want to think I’m a solo act, I’m really not. Well, I’m much better as a collaborator. Um, oh, so we started, I started this thing called Startup Sofa, um, and tried to share all these things I had learned.

I was laughing, telling her that, and I said, I was two years into this thing and thought I was, I could share, I do believe there’s a point where if you’re like one step, two step ahead of someone, sure it’s very helpful. It’s very good stuff. Like this is where I’ve got, uh, but I started laughing. I go, cuz now I try to share less.

I really actively try to not give advice as best I can until I go, okay, now it’s time for advice. I just share experiences cuz I go right. Everybody I hear doing that and you’re like, how long have you been doing this? All right. Have you been doing it exactly the way they have? Do you know their dna N do you know their company?

Do you know the mix? Do you know the environment? The answer is no. Very few bands lose their cover singer and have can just plug in another person and know, I think Queen is one of them, but you’re like, it’s very hard to, the magic is that band, those people that time to

[00:37:12] Corey Maass: do that. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you can’t, and time is is the other, is the other thing.

It’s like you can’t, you know, I’m, I’m stuck in that a little bit with music. It’s like I am, I am getting better and better at making a genre that basically died 10 years ago. I do it cuz I love it. And again, I’m, I’m, there are moments where I’m like, uh, these other genres are more popular. I would get more airplay if I switch genres again cuz I switched genres.

Like I rode a lot, the wave of, a lot of genres for a lot of years and I was sincere about it. I wasn’t, cuz I, I’ve never made music thinking that it was really going to get popular or what have you. Um, But now I make the music that I love the most and nothing else has come along that I love more. Um, but, so if you’re the perfect band, but you’re making seventies rock, uh, you might have a hard time if it sounds too much.

[00:38:15] Cory Miller: so good because then I go, there’s this other part to the whole magic is that you want magic to happen. Probably some baseline passion, desire, interest for you. Seventies rock music, right? And I go, well, as time goes by, everything works in cycles. We know it might be dead 10 years ago, but it could be alive 10 years from now.

And you’re like, oh, it’s those people that I admire very much, Corey, that have their interests and desires and passions and don’t. Stop. Mm-hmm. There’s some little fire of that in what we’re talking about while we keep showing up on [00:39:00] Wednesdays. But I really admire it because I go, those are the people that, that something is gonna happen.

It’s probably gonna be better than what they imagined. Not what they imagined, but better. And, uh, I go to like seventies music. You said it just so organically. It’s something I, I like probably not gonna stop and then I go, well, if you stay around for another 20 years, Doing that, something’s gonna happen of that.

[00:39:25] Corey Maass: right. I mean, that’s been proven over and over again and it doesn’t happen for everybody. And I’m, I have, you know, there’s, there’s two thi, two things, only two, there are at least two. One, one is persistence, um, doing what you love. And, but again, this is where, and for me it had to be. Calling it a hobby, you have to make your peace with it.

I think that’s the bigger, uh, the wider way to describe it is like there are people who are session musicians, you know, there are people who are, um, who will try to ride each wave to make the next, you know, hit song based on what trends are now. Um, there are people who would just grind. Um, Derek Sives talks a lot about this.

Yeah. Um, love his work. And, um, you know, and, and, uh, and he’s a good example. And other people, uh, who are like, okay, well I’m going to, I’m gonna do other things to, you know, to pay the bills, but, uh, my passion lies over here. And, uh, because it’s my passion, it will, I will always keep chipping away at it kind of thing.

Um, but I think, so that’s, that’s sort of one line. And then there’s another line, which is time and perspective and, um, Because you talk about good things will happen to them eventually. Right? And so it’s like I, for me, part of that I think can be the lowering of expectations, uh, which sounds so old and cynical and beaten down, but it’s like I get more out of.

Smaller things musically, like again, I’m, I’m, I’m getting older and older. The likelihood that even if I got a song that blew up, am I gonna tour on that at age 46? I also, I generally make music that that’s popular in England and so am I going to tour in England at age 46 and I can barely stay awake past 10:00 PM Am I, am I really gonna go DJ gigs at three in the morning?

No. You know, uh, and so managing, managing expectations and it’s like I’ve, but I, and being content with, uh, a little bit of airplay here and there, or the people who, uh, I’ve now been friends with for. You know, decades coming to me and saying like, this is the best song you’ve ever written. I’m like, that’s enough.

Like, I don’t, you know, yes, I would still love, you know, uh, endless BBC airplay or something, but the li the likelihood is less. And so it’s the, uh, staying consistent for me. Staying consistent, plugging away, doing what I wanna do, but then also being more and more content with, again, smaller wins. Um, cuz it’s like there’s, yeah.

You know, it’s hard not to like, um, I am reacting to what you just said of like going, there’s a lot of entrepreneur advice that, that the entrepreneurs that I was following, like for years I wanted to go to, um, Rob Walling and, and Mike, they do startups for the rest of us. Um, and they do a conference, MicroCon.

Yeah. For years I wanted to go to MicroComp and, and then it, and, and I went to businesses, software, and some of these that were, I. Like only a few of the talks were relevant to the very, very bootstrapping I was doing. Um, and now even MicroComp, I mean, and years ago they split into two tracks. I don’t know where they are anymore, but the last time I looked, and this is no criticism of them, it’s just like I never.

I never was able to go up, up, up with all the other people that were going up, up, up. And so then they were all, you know, you, you were, you mentioned being a couple of rungs ahead of me. They were ladders ahead of me. And so it stopped being, um, pertinent. Um, and I also took my foot off the gas and, and aimed a little smaller.

And again, qualifying more the more side hustles and, and you know, uh, and stuff like that. And so it’s like, I struggle, I go back and forth, right? Pride at the end of my life, I, I would love to have owned a gajillion dollar company, or more importantly to me, honestly, would be to have a gajillion user product.

Um, cuz it’s just more fun, frankly, and, and presume that money would come out of it and stuff like that. But it’s like, what are my, what are my actual goals? Like, why at 46 do I code extracurr? I, I, it’s a hobby. I love it. Okay, but what, what are the goals? You know, are there still goals? Am I still trying to earn millions of dollars?

Like what is, it’s like I always, I always talk about, um, I don’t know, I, I don’t actually know anybody who makes canoes, but I always talk about, Uh, the, or I love the idea of a person who, cuz I think I, it’s the most frivolous thing I can think of. Um, and that’s that, and I don’t mean that negatively, but as a hobby, like in your garage, taking up most of your a, a car bay.

So one of your cars probably has to be parked in the, in the driveway so that you can make a canoe. I guarantee you don’t need a canoe. And, and the world doesn’t need another canoe. There are canoes that you could go buy, probably get one for free because everybody buys a canoe and then never ends up using it.

That’s, at least that was me, my family growing up. Um, but anyway, it’s like that to me is the epitome of a hobby. It’s pure love. Absolutely nothing in the world needs or requires or even probably encourages you to build a canoe, but you want to, so you’re gonna do it. Um, and that’s, and then I look at, at what I’m doing and it’s like, okay, well the, if, you know, the end goal of a canoe is that you can put it in the water and paddle it around, right?

It’s like, so the end goal for me, for building a product is users as people, users it. And I’m like, look, I, I brought value or joy or productivity or, you know, something that it’s validating. Um, You know, but, but in the grand scheme of things, like there was a time when I was like, you know, the goal is to make a gajillion dollars.

Um, now it’s like I’ve, I’ve gotten, I’ve gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. Now it’s to make a good product that people use. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, is that because I have failed so many times that my expectations have gone down, down, down, or. Is that still I’ve, I’ve, for myself, I have distilled it down to, that’s the first real spark, and then you kind of grow a, ideally grow a fire from there, right?

If you’ve got people using something, then you’ve got something, presumably, and then that’s where you, you know, uh, You are, you are the fuel, and I’m the f I’m the spark or whatever, you know, that’s where you and I collaborate because fire takes three things. Um, and so you, you can’t, you probably can’t do it yourself or you don’t want to.

Um, and, or, you know, the idea of cool people working together to build something bigger and bigger and bigger. And so part of the joy is like, I was texting my, talking about the, the startup in Nashville. I was texting with the ceo. Yes. This weekend, you know, and I haven’t, and that was at least 10 years ago.

So it’s like friendships that last, or fond memories or, or war stories or, you know, I don’t know. It’s hard to, I’m, I’m totally rambling, but it’s hard to quantify now, harder to quantify now for me, like. Why on earth I do this, but I do it and it brings me joy and maybe that’s all I need.

[00:47:30] Cory Miller: Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about hobbies and historically I’ve been like, I don’t have hobbies.

I have work, I don’t have a home life. Um, and work was always my hobby. I mean, I would say even before I, I could, I had so much fun. It was like a hobby, I guess. Mm-hmm. Um, and most of the business was fun and I didn’t. Have time and want to have time for other hobbies. Like it had to be productive. When you said hobby, it’s like when you’re talking about the canoe, I go, there’s a reason the person has makes space in the garage and the significant other probably goes, we don’t have any garage cause the canoe.

But I go, that energy, that passion needs to take up space in your life somehow. And I go, so I haven’t had those. I do have two motorcycle, um, two motorcycles and the girls that don’t work. Um, but like what takes up space? I guess I was thinking what takes up space and this is it, this is part of this. So like we talked about it and your, your thoughts and hobbies have helped me so much more as go, I still think about it as.

For some reason, I, it’s hard for me to do something just for the value of doing it. The joy of doing it. Yeah. Um, I do have joy in doing things that build. I just want the practical something to the end. But I go, you know, this has, this, this time should take, uh, space in my life because I enjoy it. Right for that only value.

That’s something that did not exist probably a year ago, five years ago. 10 years ago. In my, in my mind, in my heart, because I was like, well, it’s just extra. It does take up just like the canoe in the garage takes up space, that other things could be there, but I go. No, enjoy talking to you. Enjoy having these conversations.

Enjoy tinkering with these products. This is our little mm-hmm. Garage hobby. You know, my version because I don’t physical things, you know, you build fences and stuff. Um, I, I don’t really do a lot of that. Don’t feel like I have always the ability and patience to do it, but I was like, hobby that builds, I, that’s my version of hobby is something, even when I could say I.

My reading hobby, my hiking hobby, for me, it still builds. I’d need that part. It’s just, it connects somewhere back. Um, like I can say we’re gonna my daughter and sent her home. Of course summer, we’ll go to the swimming pool. The value of that is rest and recuperation and enjoying time with them. That checks by something that builds.

Sure. Thing, but I don’t know. As you were talking, I was like, no, it’s this time should take up this space. It has taken up, what, the last six months I think we’re our 18th session.

[00:50:40] Corey Maass: Yeah. I, yeah. I love, I love that you say it that way, like I think the hard part is, again, settling it in your own mind and then explaining it to other people.

Yeah. And, and I know that we’ve struggled a little bit, um, where to my wife, it looks like I’m working all the time and I’m like, yeah. And sometimes I am. And sometimes it’s work, but it’s not earning me any money. And sometimes it’s fun and it’s not earning me any money. And it’s, you know, and it’s like there are four, the four quadrants of earns money or doesn’t, and it’s fun or it isn’t, but, um, and it’s client work or it’s not.

And, and I know that like my folks struggle with this too. My dad, my folks are retired, but my dad still writes papers, um, using research that he did during his career as a forester. Um, And it just brings him joy. And my mom’s like, get off the damn computer, where, you know, go play golf. We’re retired.

That’s not the retirement she wants. It’s the retirement he wants, you know? Um, and so it’s the hard, sometimes it’s hard to explain or show to other people, like, this is okay, this is what I wanna do. It’s like, as long as you’re getting enough exercise in vitamin D, you know, uh, but it’s, you know, cuz it’s, And it’s funny cuz people will look at gaming, you know, it’s like, oh, well you’re, you’re 10, 12 hours a day in front of the TV going zap, zap, zap or whatever.

You know? We’ll go, okay, that’s fi that’s fine. That’s a hobby. It’s like, It may or may not be the healthiest me sitting here typing, building something, and I’m not judging one against the other, obviously, but it’s the, like, it’s hard to, it’s, it, it’s not as easy to demonstrate that it’s the same sort of thing of like, no, this is fun.

[00:52:35] Cory Miller: Oh yeah. I, you know, self-care is all in the rage and I’m glad it is, but I go, it’s such an abstract concept for me. But because I’m, I try to be pretty practical with things, but I go, you know, that time and space is valuable to me. And you put the other part, is it seen as valued by others? And that’s another conversation.

But I go, what I’m trying to do is like, I don’t have those things. Maybe I don’t consciously have those things a take up space that I go, this is me, this is for me. Right. It’s for others but me and this whole concept of taking, so I says, what the heck does that talk about? It means for me personally, being in a line, not worrying about everybody else, necessarily worrying about me too.

I’m okay to be in this space. Um, there’s a great person on Instagram talking about, or Instagram talking about Enneagram, and I’m an Enneagram nine, which is peacemaker Art Tap. And the one thing they said, take up space. And I said, I think I’m starting to get that now from canoe in the garage to standing in line.

And you know what? I’m in this part and I’m gonna take this particular space, you know, for myself. Yeah. And I think that goes back to hobbies is now of course communication with sniff and others and all that stuff. But I go, it’s one added element I think our conversations have been so enriching for me is just go, it’s okay.

This time our async time takes up space and what I increasingly see is limited time. Yeah. And energy. But I go, I wanted to take up space. I wanted to take up that space. And you know, that’s the amber that I think keeps me coming to this. Uh, and then, you know, you never know. You just never know. Yep. Like we’re not losing our house families, all this stuff, like you said earlier.

[00:54:48] Corey Maass: So, uh, I think both of us have limited availability for a while, but as we’ve said so I’m the only thing that is tugging at my sleeve. Given, given the reflection that we’ve just done, like I’m, I would be okay if time went by. Um, but the, the little bit that’s, that’s nagging at me is that we’re, we are really close.

Like I have something working. Um, and so I think that that’s gonna keep, that’s gonna drive me soon to, again, start putting in a few hours here and there, um, to try to get something. Out the door, um, for you to use. For me to use and mm-hmm. Um, and you know, as quick as we can get it on the website. And, and so it’s on, it’s for sale.

[00:55:55] Cory Miller: talking about our, don’t think feature damages post says that are gonna, we got this new theme in staging. We’re gonna be launching before work camps. I’ll say July 1st, and realizing thumbnails on the feature, damage on the archive pages, uh, how we’re gonna do the feature damages in the post gonna need to change as an awareness thing from the post edit client side.

I go, this is gonna be good, you know, we’ll keep iterating on this. Um, with when, when you’re able to get the new update. Is, um, I think there’d be a lot of good feedback there, um, to how does that look on that home? How does that look on the inside page? That I think is that cornerstone to value for, yeah.

So I like to say, I think it’s good timing when you get the new update, put it on staging, start trying it out. We’ll have another round of feedback.

[00:56:52] Corey Maass: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, baby steps or big steps sometimes, you know. Yeah. But. Keep moving forward. Sounds good.

This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.

We are excited to announce the launch of new payment features on Gravatar profiles!

Now, you can add verified payment links for PayPal, Venmo, and Patreon and share your cryptocurrency wallet addresses (Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Ethereum, and more). When someone looks at your profile on their phone, they’ll see a new button at the top to Send Money.

A new Share Profile button also displays your unique QR code and a simple way to copy your link, allowing you to share your profile with others quickly.

Millions of people view Gravatar profiles every month. Keep your profile up-to-date and manage your online identity by adding verified links to the services you use, such as Instagram, Tumblr, GitHub, Mastodon, and more. Adding multiple payment options to your profile builds trust that those paying you know they have the correct account.

Gravatar is your personal digital business card. And now a one-stop place for those that need to send you payments.

The plugin has been given a fresh coat of paint, and you will notice a nicer appearance when configuring Akismet or viewing your stats.

Note that the minimum required version of WordPress is now v5.8, and installing Akismet requires PHP v5.6 or above. We also no longer provide support for Internet Explorer 11, matching WordPress’ own behavior.

To upgrade, visit the Updates page of your WordPress dashboard and follow the instructions. If you need to download the plugin zip file directly, links to all versions are available in the WordPress plugins directory.

[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

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Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and did this case, how and why WordCamps might change in the future?

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If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

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If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you or your idea featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox. And use the form there.

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So on the podcast today, we have Angela Jin. It’s the first of six episodes recorded at WordCamp Europe, 2023 in Athens, Greece.

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Angela is the head of programs and contributor experience at Automattic, where she oversees the work of multiple teams dedicated to the WordPress open source project. These are the community events and engagement, education, and marketing teams. Her passion lies in building strong, inclusive communities.

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Several weeks ago, Angela wrote a blog post entitled The Next Generation of WordCamps. It laid out how WordCamps have been run for many years, as well as trying to begin a conversation about how they might look in the future.

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During the pandemic, online events filled the gap left by in-person gatherings, but they didn’t fully replace the experience. As restrictions eased in person WordCamps made a comeback. In 2022 there were around 35 events, with only one being held online. In 2023 there have been 20 events so far, and more a planned for the rest of the year.

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Angela talks about how she’s perceived a growing need for experimentation in the format of WordCamps. Currently, most WordCamps follow a tried and tested formula, with contributor days, multiple speaker presentations, the hallway track and sponsorship opportunities.

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She wanted to understand the purpose of gathering people together and what they gain from these events. To gather insights Angela had conversations with organizers, sponsors, speakers, and attendees within the WordPress community. She also sought out input from experts outside the community, such as the community manager focused group CMX.

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The feedback confirmed to Angela that events are essential for communities, but also that there are many event formats being used elsewhere. She explains that there is an opportunity to add more variety to WordPress event formats, and explore the connections and opportunities they create.

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We discuss some ways that WordCamps might evolve by having events focused on a particular area such as SEO, or a particular demographic such as students. We also get into how these amendments might be rolled out to ensure that interested groups and geographic locals don’t miss out.

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We also chat about how sponsorship plays into these changes and how funding for WordPress events might be allocated in the future.

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Angela points out that there’s no specific format which has been proposed. Rather, this is a process of trying things out and seeing what works and what does not. The goal is to say yes to new event ideas and foster, a culture of innovation within WordPress events.

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If you’re curious about how WordPress events might change in the future, this podcast is for you.

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If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all the links in the show notes by heading over to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

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And so without further delay, I bring you Angela Jin.

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I am joined on the podcast by Angela Gin. Hello, Angela.

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[00:04:45] Angela Jin: Hello. How are you doing?

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[00:04:46] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Really, really good. Thank you for joining me. We are at WordCamp Europe. Angela is going to talk to us today about, well, remarkably WordCamps and possibly the future of WordCamps. Prior to that conversation, Angela, would you mind just spending a minute just telling us who you are, who you work for, what your relationship is with WordPress?

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[00:05:04] Angela Jin: So yes, my name is Angela Gin and I am with Automattic, where I am head of programs and contributor experience. I am full-time sponsored and so I get to work on the WordPress open source project for everything, which is fantastic.

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[00:05:19] Nathan Wrigley: So we are at WordCamp Europe. Let’s just deal with that bit first, because I was just saying to somebody, I actually think of all the WordCamps I’ve ever attended, this feels like a really, truly remarkable event. I don’t know if it’s just the configuration of the building, or how people are squeezed in by the corridors and things, but it does seem to be hugely attended.

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[00:05:40] Angela Jin: It is. The attendance numbers that they showed at opening remarks this morning here, that they, what it was like 2,800 people, something like that. Over that, which is really exciting.

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[00:05:52] Nathan Wrigley: So WordCamps are still popular? We might get into a conversation about whether there’s an ebb and flow to that. But big events like this are still a big part of people’s calendars.

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[00:06:01] Angela Jin: For everybody here, certainly so. It is buzzing with activity here.

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[00:06:06] Nathan Wrigley: More broadly though, WordCamps and WordPress events, so we might use the word MeetUp for that, but I’ll just say WordPress events. Do they follow the trend of maintaining popularity? In the back of my mind when I ask that question is basically the pandemic. So pre pandemic everything was sailing along smoothly, and then we had this massive wall in the road. Everything stopped.

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It felt like at that moment there was a bit of a change. The online events filled a gap, but they didn’t fill the entire gap. And then WordPress events came back online in various different formats. Where are we at now? Obviously this event is super well attended, but if we were to look at the whole of WordPress events, would that be the case, or are we still trying to rebuild a bit?

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[00:06:54] Angela Jin: Yeah, I think we are definitely trying to rebuild, but I think that is true for everything, even not just events. So yes, prior to the pandemic we were smooth sailing. We were very active WordCamps around the world. And yeah, during the pandemic it was, we needed to shift how we met.

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So we met online and it was difficult. And so since 2021, we’ve started shifting into, I think we had one in-person WordCamp that year at the very, very end of the year. Last year in 2022, I believe we had around. 35 events total, and I think only one of them was online. And so clearly we are coming back, which is great. But we are nowhere near where we were prior to the pandemic. But I think that is, that’s very understandable. As we’re trying to get back into things.

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So far this year we are at, I believe we have had, not including this event because we’re not quite all the way through yet. I think we’ve had 20 events, I want to say. And so we’re well ahead of where we were compared to last year. And we do still have quite a few events on the calendar through the end of the year.

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So yeah, from a pure numbers of WordCamp perspective, I think we are trying our best to come back. From an attendance perspective, interestingly during when we had online events, our attendance rates far exceeded what we expected them to be. I think because it’s so easy to have an online event and then just show up for however much of it you want to show up for. And so, that’s an interesting attendance piece there. But attendance rates are pretty much in line with what we saw prior to the pandemic as well.

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[00:08:43] Nathan Wrigley: Oh really? As of now, so we’re recording this in June 2023. Broadly speaking, the numbers are similar to 2019, say.

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[00:08:53] Angela Jin: So with fewer events, from a pure number of people’s perspective, fewer, but, the attendance rate for events, by which I mean expected attendance for events versus actual attendance. It’s always hovered around like 90 to 95% for events, and so we are, we’re holding study there, and also in the average number of attendees per event.

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[00:09:16] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. We’re going to reference a piece that you wrote on make.wordpress.org. It was written last month, it was May 8th, and it was called The Next Generation of WordCamps. I think this will probably dominate the rest of the conversation. And in that piece you laid out the possible groundwork, I’ll say possible, for a change to the way these WordPress events are done.

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I could lead you with the questions, trying to tease out what’s in that article. I don’t know if you can remember all the details. But do you just want to run us broadly what you were saying in that?

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[00:09:46] Angela Jin: Yeah, that was, it was quite a post to write and to put out there. But I’m really excited by it. So, what I set out to do there was to capture some of the needed updates to our events program that I’m seeing, that I think we might need to have in our events program.

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The way this came about was pretty interesting because I think prior to the pandemic we were starting to see some people want more out of their WordCamps. And I think that makes a lot of sense. This format that we have has been the staple since 2006. And what’s really changed is how many events that we have, and the scale of them, and the size, and how many people are able to attend.

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However, even prior to the pandemic, we were starting to hear from people that they wanted more variety in their content. They wanted advanced topics. They really wanted to be able to have more workshops to learn things that they were able to take back to their everyday lives. And that, coupled with all of the changes with the pandemic, at this point in WordPress events, I really started thinking about how the way that we meet has shifted dramatically. And after 20 years, of course, like that makes a lot of sense.

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And so, I am very much a community manager at heart, and so when I think about gathering people together, I really think about what is the purpose of gathering people together. When we ask people to come join us in this space, why? Like what are they getting out of it? What draws them here? What makes the best use of their time and attention?

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And so that prompted a whole discovery session where, it was hard to write about at that time, because I wasn’t quite sure what I was getting myself into. I started really asking a bunch of people in the community, organizers, sponsors, speakers, first time attendees, experienced attendees. And I think everybody really loves this community. Like that is a resounding sentiment that I hear all the time.

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And at the same time we want more out of our events, and we want some more specific things. And it was very similar to what I was seeing before the pandemic as well. And so there was a lot of, within the WordPress community, confirmation that this seemed like something needed to be updated.

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[00:12:15] Nathan Wrigley: So, where did the information that people wanted this come from? Did you do surveys? Were you just polling in places like Slack? Where did the feedback that updates needed to be done, where did that tend to come from?

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[00:12:28] Angela Jin: Yeah, for sure. So it did start with a lot of conversations within the community, with organisers, speakers, sponsors. And the community team is very fortunate to have this excellent community deputy group. They’re all past organizers, and are very experienced with the make community team. So they’re very familiar with our program.

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And so I started there. And then I also went outside of the WordPress community to chat with a number of event organizers, like event experts, people who do events for a living. To see what sort of trends that they were seeing as well. And one group that I really like to look to is CMX. It’s a community for community managers. And they, every year they put out an excellent report. They pole well over 400 community professionals from around the world.

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And they confirmed that events are a staple for communities, and of course, no surprise there. And that it was both in-person and online events. And some of the report findings there, they were seeing where certain types of events were filling certain needs.

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So I think, education is a really good one. So like trainings that we’re providing to our community, those are, really popular in both online and in person formats. And I think Learn WordPress has done a great job in continuing, like I think that helps me confirm what CMX expressed in their report, because we do have these great online workshops that happen all the time. They’re really well attended.

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At the same time, trainings also work really well in person, according to the CMX report. And in-person events, it’s really good for one-on-one connection. Things like this when we’re looking at each other, having a conversation. And so, like different formats fill different spaces. And I think we are really missing an opportunity to add more variety into our event formats, and see what sort of connections that creates. What sort of opportunities that unlocks.

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[00:14:33] Nathan Wrigley: We’ll get onto the new possible formats, and you’ve thrown out a whole bunch of different things that we might do. I’ve got a question around sponsorship. I don’t really know what the sponsorship picture is. I confess, I don’t. explore that data. I don’t try to find it. So, I don’t know what the state of sponsorships are. But how does that feed into this?

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Are you changing things? Has there been in the back of your mind changing things in order to attract sponsors? Has there been a, an up swell in the same way that you described just now that the community are coming back, there’s more people attending. Have the sponsorships come back? Because my understanding anecdotally, at least anyway, is there was a period a little while ago where the sponsorship felt a bit sketchy for a while. It wasn’t quite getting where it ought to be.

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[00:15:13] Angela Jin: Yeah, I think there’s a number of things there. As we all know, companies are very financially aware right now, and at the same time cost are extremely high. And so I think we are definitely feeling that pressure of really justifying the value of these events to sponsors and also being able to afford venues, for example. Venues are one of our, they are the highest cost right now. And then when you add on food, after party, AV, those expenses are very high right now.

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And so yeah, the amount of sponsorship that we want to raise is higher, and at a time where the economy is struggling, that’s a difficult thing. However, we are doing, we are doing well overall. I think, as you can tell from the sponsor activity downstairs, it seems to be doing really well.

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We raised enough for the global sponsors that we aim to raise, and we also just added another global sponsor. So overall we are doing well and I think it’s really wonderful that WordPress community support has always been very budget conscious. We work closely with organizers to make sure that we are as responsible and as aware of what we’re spending money on as possible.

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With new events, I think it’s a really interesting thing for sponsorship, and I have spoken with, before I posted that post, I did speak with our global sponsors because I didn’t want them to be surprised by this change, given that they fund all of our events for the full year.

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They were excited by it overall. They were seeing the same trends that I was seeing, and I was very clear that this is an experiment, and we’re going to, we’re going to encourage the community to try things out and see what happens. And that I really wanted to hear from them what sort of sponsor benefits they saw, they would like, and that we would have that conversation. Yeah, I think that’s largely what I’m seeing from our sponsors. They’re really curious to see what comes of this, and they’re excited as well.

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[00:17:15] Nathan Wrigley: I wonder, does an event like WordCamp EU , which is truly on a very different scale from let’s say a local meetup or something like that, or a much more regional WordCamp. It feels as if sponsors and all of that would be falling over themselves to come here, because they can capture a truly enormous audience of interested people.

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But I wonder what the trickle down of that is. In other words, if we were to have the same conversation, but we weren’t sitting in WordCamp Europe and we were sitting in a much smaller event. How does the sponsorship work there? Are we still in a strong position to put on local WordCamps with the model that we’ve got and, Meetups, regional WordCamps, all of that kind of thing?

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Because it feels like WordCamp Europe, that would almost be the last thing to fail. The sponsors would be desperate to get here. How is it looking for the smaller events, the ones in, I don’t know, capital cities or the ones in regional cities throughout the world?

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[00:18:14] Angela Jin: It is different, given the scale of WordCamp Europe. Overall our events large and small, have, they’ve been able to raise a good amount of money locally. We do augment that with global sponsorship. That’s what the global sponsor fund is there for. And so yeah, we do our best to, the priority of WordCamps is the attendees. And so we really want our organizers to be able to focus on creating the best experience for WordCampers, as opposed to spending so much time raising money. Because fundraising is challenging. I’ve done plenty of it myself and it is hard work.

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[00:18:53] Nathan Wrigley: Do you have a list of WordCamps which in an ideal world, these ones would be put on? In other words, I’ve got a list of 800, here’s the top 10 that we must make happen. Here’s a further a hundred, which we’d love to happen. And sadly there’s a few down here which might not make the cut. I don’t know how that decision tree looks.

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[00:19:11] Angela Jin: Oh, it’s very much up to the community. Any organizer that wants to have a WordPress event, the community team wants to support them in having that. That is very much what the community team is there for.

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And so I think one of, bringing this back to Next Gen events, one of the things that I was seeing that I think a lot of community members are seeing, from organizers, is that they have interest in doing something that’s a slightly different format from the WordCamps that we know and love.

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But they feel like they can’t do that because it’s not a WordCamp. And I think we should be saying yes to those. We should be encouraging all those, all those really creative ideas for how to connect and engage with each other, not do them for sake of doing what we know and love.

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[00:20:00] Nathan Wrigley: I think it’s always true that things have to evolve. That much is clear. So let’s get into that. You just called it, them, Next Gen events. Whether or not that’s the word we end up using, I don’t know, but for now, let’s go with that. What are some of the things that you are proposing could be a Next Gen event? How do they differ?

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So, a WordCamp at the moment, at least the ones that I’ve been to, is several days. You show up, there’s often several tracks. There’s a whole range of different topics on offer. There’s usually a hallway track where people engage. There’s an after party, all of those kind of things. So that’s how we know it at the moment. What are you thinking of doing to change that?

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[00:20:39] Angela Jin: Yeah, I really am curious to see what people come up with. What I propose there was a really, I consider it more of a evolution as opposed to a change. We’re not doing away with any of the WordCamps that are currently on the calendar, that want to come and organize. What we are doing is encouraging community members to express what sort of events they want to see. And so a few that, I think I had included in that post, were things like, focused on contribution.

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They were focused on all day workshops that really help people learn specific skills. One thing that I’ve heard over and over is that people want to learn advanced skills. Advanced WordPress development, design, content creation, things like that. And so we could really do a lot with that.

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One interesting format, it was described to me as a shark tank, but nice. We’re a very, I know, I love that. We’re a very entrepreneurial community and if we’re going to help everybody really succeed in that, then we need to give them some place to come and explore their ideas. Learn from each other around what it really takes to make all of that happen.

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Yeah, coming to an event, sharing a pitch, and getting feedback from people who have been there before, who are able to help them refine and strengthen their ideas and then make connections to make those happen. That’s pretty exciting.

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[00:22:13] Nathan Wrigley: I’m going to quote directly from your piece because I think it perfectly sums up what you’d hope. What you are looking for in the future. So this is not a cast iron set of things which are going to happen. These are just some possible suggestions, and it says, so I quote, the hope is that a period of innovation and experimentation will follow this critical shift in the purpose of our rents with the following outcomes.

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Events curated for clearly defined audiences, resulting in a clearer idea of what attendees will gain from participating. For example, events for students, for designers, for contributors. So that’s point 1. Point 2, a more precise focus around event content types or topics. This will also help further clarify who the event is for. For example, maybe an event on AI and WordPress, user experience enterprise, et cetera. That’s point 2. And point 3, a variety of event formats that are freshly exciting and engaging for attendees. For example, workshops, unconference, job fairs, pure networking, et cetera.

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So there’s the three points, and each of those, if I attended an event like one of those, it would be radically different to something that we’re attending now. So let’s just take those piece by piece. This idea of defined audiences. So you mentioned here, for example, students, designers, contributors. That’s an idea, it may have legs, it may not. You’re trying to figure that out.

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Is the intention there then to literally put an event up where it’s advertised toward students primarily, or to designers primarily. So people seeing that, who are not students, or not designers would feel, do you know what, that’s maybe one I’ll hold back on. I’ll look for a different one at a different point. Is that the idea of that one?

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[00:23:51] Angela Jin: Yes, kind of. The point is definitely not to, I don’t want to exclude anybody from any of these events. However, I do think that, where we are in a world where finances are tightened, and it is expensive to commit to the time and to commit to the travel to an event, that people want to know what they are going to get out of it.

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And by clearly articulating who this event is really designed for, we can provide an event that really delivers that kind of content. I was recently at Open Source 101, was held at a community college, and the mix there was very clearly students. Or people who were looking to change jobs into open source. And they were very clear from the beginning that this was,

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I mean, it’s in the name Open Source 101. This is introductory content for anyone who wants to learn about open source. It’s really broad, but at the same time, very clear about what you’re going to get by participating in this event.

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[00:24:55] Nathan Wrigley: I guess because WordPress events have largely tried to scoop everybody up in the past. You know, if you’ve got in any way a connection to WordPress, you could attend this event. But I suppose I wouldn’t really be attending an event about, oh, I don’t know, let’s pluck some subject out of the top of my head. Cisco networking. It’s in the technology space. I’m not interested in it. I’d far rather attend a WordPress event. So what you’re really trying to do is subdivide what we’ve already got into maybe something that you would be just slightly more interested in, because it’s more directly related to what your business does or what you’re interested in.

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[00:25:30] Angela Jin: Yes, and I do think that there is a space where we are undeniably multidisciplinary. It does not serve us well to just have events where we only have developers meet in one location and community builders meet in another location. And yeah, there are many developers who are also community builders. I’m just pulling those two groups as examples. And so yeah, I would also love to see events where we do celebrate that multidisciplinary community, and bring all of them together because, amazing connections and ideas come from that.

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And so I’m not trying to segment the community into all these events, but to increase the variety in events and to help people understand what they’re going to get by participating in one or the other. And I think that for many WordPressers, they would benefit from an event that is specialized for them, with content where they are going to learn more than what they currently know and further their career, further their skills, further their interests. And to participate in another event where they can focus on learning more about something that they touch in their life, but don’t necessarily know a ton about.

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[00:26:47] Nathan Wrigley: The third bullet point that I just talked about there was event formats. And you mentioned workshops. I’m quite familiar with that. We have those at WordCamps, so it’s more, instead of being presented at, from a stage, that’s more, okay, let’s all try the things together. You bring your laptop and we’ll all try to figure out the same problem at the same time. But there are some other ones in there that are really new to me. So an unconference. What is that?

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[00:27:12] Angela Jin: I think it’s also referred to as like birds of a feather. I think it has its roots in the tech community where we basically just get a bunch of people together in a room, around one topic, and the attendees really drive the agenda.

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They suggest a topic around what everybody is brought here for. And then people will vote with their feet and go to those discussions to talk about them. And so the conversation is very, very attendee driven and very organic. There’s no one speaker. Sometimes there is, whoever proposes the topic can be the facilitator, but that’s not a requirement.

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[00:27:50] Nathan Wrigley: I think the other ones we probably understand a little bit more as well. So we’ve just mentioned workshops, unconferences, job fairs, and pure networking. They probably speak for themselves. So I’ll leave those to one side.

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Is there a danger that one of the consequences of trying this out is that we will end up with events which are more specific? That therefore would attract a more specific audience? At the moment, if you wander downstairs into the hall, there’s just this broad church of people from all over the world with different backgrounds.

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You know, you’ve got the SEO people, the marketing people, the coders. You name it, they’re there. And because of that, you get this serendipitous collision of people meeting in the hallway track. Unexpected connections are made. Unexpected partnerships are forged, and all of that. Is there a danger that we may lose a part of that? And that’s an unquantifiable part because nobody’s really writing up what connections they made. It just is what people talk about.

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Is there a danger that that may be lost, because we’ve just got a bunch of SEO people in the room, or we’ve just got a bunch of AI people in the room

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[00:28:55] Angela Jin: I understand that worry, and I see where the post might make that feel more like a reality. But I can never imagine a WordPress community that would ever let that go. I want to encourage that as well because I love it. One of the concerns that came, that I’m hearing after this post, is are we going to lose that community led feel of our events?

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And I do not want to. Like that is, that is our strength. We are community first. All of our events are very community first. And we have a number of values that come along with that that I truly feel are non-negotiable. Things like our ticket prices to attend WordCamps are very low.

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We want to make them as accessible as possible. I don’t want to lose that. I want to be able to have everybody come to these events. And so things like diversity and inclusion and creating welcoming spaces, those are all non-negotiables. And so I really believe that we can take this experiment, this evolution, and make it community led.

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And we do have a ton of businesses in WordPress, and I could see a more business focused event, where it is for agencies, for enterprise, because they are a part of this community. And I believe we can do those events as community led first.

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[00:30:19] Nathan Wrigley: I guess there’s something about geography in here as well in that if, let’s say, you have a business event and it’s in Miami. Then Miami has had its business event. But Sydney didn’t. Brussels didn’t. So there’s got to be some new piece of the puzzle where, okay, we’ve got to make sure that we’ve got these new event types and we’ve got to spread them out evenly over time so that we don’t exclude Miami. They never get the SEO event, it never comes their way.

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So there’s a whole other piece about, there’s more management to be done about the topics and whether a certain geographical area has had something recently, or if it’s been five years ago. Do you know what I mean?

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[00:30:55] Angela Jin: Yeah. And in my mind, this goes to one of our open source philosophies that we create things because we’re scratching an itch. And so yeah, if Miami has an amazing contribution event and Brussels says we want one too, then let’s do it. Like I said, the community team it wants to encourage events, so let’s have it.

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[00:31:19] Nathan Wrigley: With this change over happening, presumably there’s going to be a period where the events that we’re used to will carry on. So, I think you said a little while ago that if you’re already on the roster, if you’ve already put in a proposal and it’s been accepted, we are going to be staying with how it always has been. So it’s more from now on. You’re going to be encouraging people who haven’t yet submitted proposals. Is that true? Is that how it’s going to be rolled out?

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[00:31:42] Angela Jin: Yeah, we want to support all organizers to know the latest and greatest in the program. And so yeah, as new organizers come, we will let them know about what the community is doing, and where we’re going, where we hope to go.

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This is very much an experiment and it seems to be getting a lot of interest. We already have, I believe, over 60 idea submissions. We do have an idea submissions page, so if there is an event that you would like to see, please, please do go and share it with us. By sharing an idea, you are not committed to it.

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But part of what we’re trying to do is to collect all of these great ideas and share them with everyone so that if something sparks interest in people, they can do it in their community. Or if they have an idea to add on top of that, let’s try it out. I’m really hoping that we learn from each other to see where this goes. It is an experiment. If we all decide that we don’t like it and it doesn’t work, then we can definitely go back to what we know and do really well.

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[00:32:44] Nathan Wrigley: You’ve already anticipated one of my questions, which was do we have a reverse gear?

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[00:32:48] Angela Jin: Yes.

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[00:32:49] Nathan Wrigley: In terms of this being rolled out, if I have already submitted a proposal, we know where that’s going now. How though are we going to make the transition? Are we going to do it all at once? So we’re going to, let’s say two years from now, a new event and it’s about this one topic. Are we going to mix what we’ve got now? So say one day, just like it is at the minute, with another day of the new format, so that people can attend both at the same time and vote with their feet if you like?

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And a poll afterwards to figure out, okay, everybody like the new format, let’s push forward with that. In other words, how are you going to manage the rollout? Is it going to be sudden? So a new event is a new type, or are you going to gently mix it in with the old ones?

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[00:33:29] Angela Jin: I don’t know. I think it’s really going to be what the community would like to see. We are starting to see people, there’s a lot of excitement for this from what I can see. We already have organizers reaching out to the community team to host these events. We are also figuring out the tooling for it right now.

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So, there’s another post about that, please go share your thoughts on that. But we do have some that are being scheduled. I believe there is one event that is, actually we talked about this, an event for organizers to, to help train other organisers.

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[00:34:04] Nathan Wrigley: Like an event for an event?

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[00:34:06] Angela Jin: Yes. I’m hearing about events that want to bring WordPress to communities that don’t necessarily have a strong WordPress community or any WordPress community at all. And see how bringing this technology to a different place, how it goes. And I’m also hearing events where we want to provide, new to WordPress, come to this day of workshops and learn how to use the site editor and learn how to, launch your own website.

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[00:34:36] Nathan Wrigley: So new events will be more refined? At the moment if we attend an event, we can see, let’s say an event like this, we can probably see 30 different topics. We’re going to refine the events. Are there certain things which are outside of the remit of an entire event?

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So, for example, SEO feels like a big enough subject for an entire WordCamp. There’s enough content there. But maybe there’s something a bit more niche, which you hear once at an event like the one we’re at. But it wouldn’t span the whole weekend say.

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So that’s my question really. Are there some things which are within the purview of this and some things which you are excluding? You maybe don’t have any thoughts on that, but I’m just curious to know if there is going to be some things which are in scope and other things which are not.

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[00:35:21] Angela Jin: Yeah, it’s an interesting question because, I think everything that we’re seeing proposed right now does very much feel within the scope. But I’m sure at some point there’s going to be some topic that raises some eyebrows. And I think this is why having a purpose is really helpful for that. Because we are asking that. How does your idea align with the purpose of what we’re trying to do here?

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And I would really encourage us to be experimental because WordPress is not an island. We are a part of a much larger tech ecosystem and understanding the external influences to WordPress, and how WordPress influences those areas is really important, and will help us grow. And help us bring new people in, new ideas in.

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I would like to, I keep coming back to this word, but I would really like to be very experimental about it. And like I said, if we don’t like it, we can always go back and we have a very strong track record of being responsible with sponsor dollars. And so if there is an event that we’re like, hmm, like, we’re not quite sure how that’s going to work out, maybe we try it in a smaller scale and see how we can scale it.

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[00:36:34] Nathan Wrigley: You could try something a bit novel in a smaller event and see if it’s popular, see if it gains traction and what have you.

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[00:36:40] Angela Jin: I’m really excited to see where this goes. And it is really lovely being here at WordCamp Europe to talk about this, because I’m excited by how excited everybody else is about this.

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I think there are a lot of questions about it, which is totally understandable, and I really believe that we can figure them out together. So, yeah, let’s see where it goes. And the only thing I would add is, please come and share your thoughts. Please share your thoughts on the idea as a whole, what ideas you have for events, and on what potential tooling needs we might need.

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[00:37:13] Nathan Wrigley: Where do we share the thoughts?

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[00:37:15] Angela Jin: Uh, yes. There are three posts on the community, on the make community blog, and that is where a lot of the discussion is happening. The community team has regular meetings where this is a regular topic of conversation. And so yeah, come chat with any of the community deputies. Come chat with me and yeah, let’s see where this goes.

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[00:37:36] Nathan Wrigley: So I will link to those places in the show notes. So if you’re curious about anything that Angela said, you can find the post on WP Tavern, and click on the links. Angela Jin, thank you very much for talking to me today. I really appreciate it.

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[00:37:47] Angela Jin: Thank you.

On the podcast today we have Angela Jin. It’s the first of six podcast episodes recorded at WordCamp Europe 2023, in Athens, Greece.

Angela is the Head of Programs and Contributor Experience at Automattic, where she oversees the work of multiple teams dedicated to the WordPress open source project. These are the community events and engagement, education, and marketing teams. Her passion lies in building strong, inclusive communities.

During the pandemic, online events filled the gap left by in-person gatherings, but they didn’t fully replace the experience. As restrictions eased, in-person WordCamps made a comeback. In 2022, there were around 35 events, with only one being held online. In 2023, there have been 20 events so far, and more are planned for the rest of the year.

To gather insights, Angela had conversations with organisers, sponsors, speakers, and attendees within the WordPress community. She also sought input from event experts outside the community, such as the community manager-focused group CMX.

The feedback confirmed to Angela that events are essential for communities but also that there are many event formats being used elsewhere. She explains that there is an opportunity to add more variety to WordPress event formats and explore the connections and opportunities they create.

We discuss some ways that WordCamps might evolve by having events focussed upon a particular area, such as SEO, or a particular demographic, such as students. We also get into how these amendments might be rolled out to ensure that interested groups and geographic locales don’t miss out.

We also chat about how sponsorships play into these changes and how funding for WordPress events might be allocated in the future.

Angela points out that there’s no specific format which is being proposed, rather this is a process of trying things out and seeing what works and what does not. The goal is to say “yes” to new ideas and foster a culture of innovation within WordPress events.

If you’re curious about how WordPress events might change in the future, this podcast is for you.

Useful links.

Greetings! I am Igor Ligay, the CEO and co-founder of Stylemixthemes.com. Our company specializes in creating exceptional WordPress plugins and themes. Currently, I split my time between Dubai (UAE) and Tashkent (Uzbekistan).

In 2007, during my second year at university, my cousin Victor approached me with a life-changing idea. Together with our friends Arseniy and Alexander, we founded Stylemix, a company aimed at developing websites for local and international businesses in Uzbekistan. Initially, it started as a part-time venture, but we soon delved into strategies to market our services to local companies. As my family could no longer support me financially, it became crucial for me to start earning my own income. This opportunity presented itself as a chance to transform my life for the better. Working tirelessly, often until midnight, I sought international clients on Elance.com, utilizing WordPress to build their websites. This experience instilled in me the values of hard work and determination, and I am grateful for the lessons learned during those early days. Since 2008, we have been actively working with WordPress, and today our team comprises over 50 talented designers, developers, and managers who are passionate about creating high-quality products that facilitate the growth and success of businesses worldwide.

During our time on Elance, we acquired expertise in creating visually appealing custom WordPress themes with unique designs. However, the cost of such websites was often high due to the custom design aspect. To cater to customers looking for more affordable options, we began exploring alternative solutions and discovered Themeforest.net. Here, we purchased premium WP themes and utilized them to swiftly and easily create new websites for our clients.

A major breakthrough occurred for us in 2011-2012 when we conceived the idea of developing our own themes. Leveraging our experience in WordPress development, we designed our first WP theme and listed it on Themeforest. The publication process was arduous, as reviewers were initially critical of our design, typography, UI, and other elements. However, after several iterations, our item was accepted and gained popularity within the community.

Realizing that building custom WordPress websites for clients was limiting our growth potential, we made a bold decision to transition from being a service provider to a product-oriented company. This strategic shift allowed us to expand our reach and cater to a wider audience, thereby driving the success of our company. Over time, we received valuable feedback, suggestions, and advice from customers, leading us to implement new features, services, and industry-specific WP themes like Education and Car Dealership themes.

Until March 2021, Themeforest proved to be an effective sales channel for us, with a significant increase in earnings in 2020 due to COVID-19 lockdowns. However, sales started declining rapidly after March 2021, causing concern as we had ambitious plans for further growth. We observed that many successful WordPress theme and plugin companies were using Freemius, so we decided to give it a try.

Our second major breakthrough occurred in 2021 when we shifted our focus from WordPress themes development to WordPress plugin development. This pivot was prompted by the decline in sales on Themeforest.net, compelling us to redirect our team’s efforts towards a new direction. Freemius platform enabled us to effectively sell our Pro plugin version, offering all the features we had been seeking. The transition to WordPress plugin development has been a resounding success, and we take pride in the progress we have made thus far.

However, there are a few reasons why we chose to shift our focus from Envato (Themeforest) to Freemius for selling WordPress plugins directly from our company’s website:

Firstly, Themeforest lacked the flexibility to adapt to the subscription-based model that is prevalent today. We were compelled to sell one-time purchases and promote our support as a subscription-like service. Ideally, vendors should have the freedom to choose between lifetime and subscription models, enabling developers like us to opt for the solution that best aligns with our business strategy.

Another reason for our shift was the inability to track conversions, customer journeys, and directly contact customers, as Envato does not share customer emails. Without the necessary data and insights, it was challenging to shape our strategies effectively.

Furthermore, we believe that themes and plugins are distinct products. The market for themes has been disrupted by Elementor page builder, and the introduction of Gutenberg is poised to bring further changes. On the other hand, plugin development is akin to software development. While no-code solutions are also altering this landscape, we are actively building no-code functionalities for the benefit of our WordPress users.

It is important to note that Themeforest can still be a suitable platform for conducting business, as it has worked for many others. However, we have outgrown it and require a platform that can support our growth in an increasingly competitive market, aligning with our evolving strategies.

Stylemix Today

The journey we embarked on, myself, my partners, and our dedicated employees, has been long and filled with challenges. We weathered economic crises and overcame adversities like the COVID-19 pandemic. Stylemix has evolved into a reliable source of income, not only for me but for every member of our team. While we may not offer the highest salaries compared to other IT companies in Uzbekistan and elsewhere, what sets us apart is the exceptional work environment, the bonds of friendship among colleagues, our unwavering commitment to WordPress products, and our Kaizen philosophy. These elements combine to create an invaluable working experience for our team.

Progressing our company hasn’t been easy, but we continue to strive forward. We actively participate in WordCamps, Envato meetups, and various WordPress-related events to forge connections with new partners, authors, marketers, and more. Being a part of the WordPress community fills us with pride, as we recognize that WordPress has not only transformed my life but also the lives of my employees. It is a testament to the fact that without WordPress, we would be on a different path today. Ultimately, WordPress has played a pivotal role in the growth and success of Stylemix.

What has helped me move forwards

My shareholders are more than just business partners; they have played an instrumental role in my personal growth. As a team of four shareholders, we engage in open discussions about business strategy and product analytics.

I firmly believe that learning is a lifelong journey. I seek inspiration and motivation by reading books, watching interviews with IT founders, staying up to date with WordPress-related blogs, and attending meetups. These activities have facilitated my continuous evolution and development as a business leader. I am committed to pursuing new opportunities for growth and learning.

Final Words

My journey as an entrepreneur in the WordPress community, particularly as a plugin developer, has been an incredible ride. From the inception of the idea to its launch and continuous improvement, it has been a journey marked by dedication, hard work, and perseverance. I have learned the importance of task prioritization, constant innovation, and embracing customer feedback. We are grateful to our customers and partners who have supported us along the way, contributing to the enhancement of our products and our success.

As we look towards the future, our team is filled with excitement about the possibilities that lie ahead. We remain committed to providing customers with the best possible experience and continuously improving our portfolio of WordPress plugins with each update.

От сервис провайдера до мощной продуктовой компании: Раскрывая путь в мире WordPress

Привет! Я Игорь Лигай, генеральный директор и сооснователь Stylemixthemes.com. Наша компания специализируется на создании выдающихся плагинов и тем для WordPress. В настоящее время я живу в Дубаи (ОАЭ) и в Ташкенте (Узбекистан).

В 2007 году, во время моего второго года университета, мой двоюродный брат Виктор предложил мне жизненно важную идею. Вместе с нашими друзьями Арсением и Александром мы основали компанию Stylemix, которая занималась разработкой веб-сайтов для местных и международных бизнесов в Узбекистане. Изначально это было небольшим хобби, но вскоре мы начали заниматься маркетингом наших услуг для местных компаний. Так как моя семья больше не могла финансово поддерживать меня, для меня стало крайне важным начать зарабатывать собственный доход. Эта возможность представляла собой шанс изменить мою жизнь к лучшему. Работая неустанно, часто до полуночи, я искал международных клиентов на Elance.com и использовал WordPress для создания их веб-сайтов. Этот опыт привил мне ценности трудолюбия и настойчивости, и я благодарен за уроки, полученные в те ранние дни. С 2008 года мы активно работаем с WordPress, и сегодня наша команда включает более 50 талантливых дизайнеров, разработчиков и менеджеров, увлеченных созданием качественных продуктов, способствующих росту и успеху бизнеса во всем мире.

Во время работы на Elance мы приобрели экспертизу в создании привлекательных пользовательских тем для WordPress с уникальными дизайнами. Однако стоимость таких веб-сайтов часто была высокой из-за индивидуального дизайна, который мы рисовали с нуля. Чтобы удовлетворить клиентов, ищущих более доступные варианты, мы начали исследовать альтернативные решения и обнаружили Themeforest.net. Здесь мы покупали премиум-темы WP и использовали их для быстрого и легкого создания новых веб-сайтов для наших клиентов.

Переломным моментом для нас стал 2011-2012 год, когда мы придумали идею разработки собственных тем. Используя наш опыт в разработке WordPress, мы создали нашу первую тему WP и разместили ее на Themeforest. Процесс публикации был сложным, так как модераторы изначально были критичны к нашему дизайну, типографике, пользовательскому интерфейсу и другим элементам. Однако после нескольких итераций наша тема была принята и получила популярность в сообществе.

Понимая, что создание индивидуальных веб-сайтов на WordPress для клиентов ограничивает наш потенциал роста, мы приняли смелое решение перейти от поставщика услуг к продуктовой компании. Этот стратегический поворот позволил нам обслуживать более широкую аудиторию, способствуя успеху нашей компании. С течением времени мы получали ценные отзывы, предложения и советы от клиентов, что привело нас к внедрению новых функций, услуг и тем WP для конкретных отраслей, таких как образование и автодилерские темы.

До марта 2021 года Themeforest был для нас эффективным каналом продажи, и в 2020 году мы заметно увеличили свою прибыль из-за локдауна в эпоху COVID-19. Однако после марта 2021 года продажи резко снизились, вызвав беспокойство, так как у нас были амбициозные планы по дальнейшему росту. Мы заметили, что многие успешные компании по разработке тем и плагинов для WordPress используют Freemius, поэтому мы решили попробовать его.

Второй важный момент нашего развития произошел в 2021 году, когда мы сместили фокус с разработки тем WordPress на разработку плагинов WordPress. Этот поворот был вызван снижением продаж на Themeforest.net и заставил нас перенаправить усилия нашей команды в новом направлении. Платформа Freemius позволила нам успешно продавать нашу Pro-версию плагина, предлагая все необходимые функции. Переход к разработке плагинов WordPress стал большим успехом, и мы гордимся тем, что сделали правильное решение.

Более того, есть еще несколько причин, по которым мы решили сместить свое внимание с Envato (Themeforest) на Freemius для продажи плагинов WordPress непосредственно на веб-сайте нашей компании:

Во-первых, Themeforest не обладал гибкостью для адаптации к модели подписки, которая сегодня является распространенной. Мы вынуждены продавать одноразовые покупки и предлагать нашу поддержку в виде услуги, похожей на подписку. Продавцы должны иметь свободу выбора между пожизненной лицензией и моделью по подписке, чтобы разработчики, как мы, могли выбрать решение, которое лучше соответствует нашей бизнес-стратегии.

Еще одной причиной нашего перехода было отсутствие возможности отслеживать конверсии, путь клиента и напрямую общаться с клиентами, так как Envato не предоставляет адреса электронной почты клиентов. Без необходимых данных и информации было сложно эффективно формировать наши стратегии.

Кроме того, мы считаем, что темы и плагины – это разные продукты. Рынок тем уничтожается дешевыми решениями от Elementor и Gutenberg. С другой стороны, разработка плагинов напоминает разработку программного обеспечения.

Themeforest все еще может быть хорошей платформой для ведения бизнеса, так как на ней до сиз пор продают многие другие компании. Однако мы переросли ее и нуждаемся в платформе, которая может поддержать наш рост на все более конкурентном рынке, соответствуя нашим стратегиям.

Stylemix сегодня

Путь, который мы начали более 10 лет назад, привел нас к успеху и признанию в сообществе разработчиков WordPress. Мы гордимся тем, что стали руководителями в создании тем и плагинов WordPress для различных отраслей. Наша команда продолжает разрабатывать инновационные решения, следуя современным трендам и потребностям пользователей.

Мы по-прежнему стремимся создавать высококачественные продукты, способствующие успешному онлайн-присутствию наших клиентов. Наша цель – помочь предпринимателям, брендам и организациям достичь своих целей и раскрыть свой потенциал через WordPress.

Если у вас есть какие-либо вопросы или потребности, пожалуйста, не стесняйтесь обратиться ко мне или нашей команде. Мы всегда готовы помочь и поделиться нашими знаниями и опытом с вами.

Продвижение нашей компании не было простым, но мы продолжаем стремиться вперед. Мы активно участвуем в мероприятиях WordCamp, встречах Envato и различных событиях, связанных с WordPress, чтобы установить связи с новыми партнерами, авторами, маркетологами и другими представителями отрасли. Быть частью сообщества WordPress наполняет нас гордостью, поскольку мы понимаем, что WordPress не только изменил мою жизнь, но и жизни моих сотрудников. Это свидетельство того, что без WordPress мы бы шли по другому пути сегодня. В конечном счете, WordPress сыграл решающую роль в росте и успехе Stylemix.

То, что помогает мне двигаться вперед

Мои акционеры – это не просто партнеры по бизнесу; они сыграли важную роль в моем личном росте. В качестве команды из четырех акционеров мы ведем открытые дискуссии о бизнес-стратегии и аналитике продукта.

Я твердо верю, что обучение – это путь на всю жизнь. Я ищу вдохновение и мотивацию, читая книги, смотря интервью с основателями IT-компаний, следя за блогами, связанными с WordPress, и посещая мероприятия. Эти активности способствуют моему непрерывному развитию и эволюции в качестве бизнес-лидера. Я стремлюсь открывать новые возможности для роста и обучения.

Заключительные слова

Мое путешествие в качестве предпринимателя в сообществе WordPress, особенно в качестве разработчика плагинов, было невероятным интересным. От зарождения идеи до ее запуска и непрерывного совершенствования – это путь, отмеченный преданностью, усердием и настойчивостью. Я узнал о важности приоритизации задач, постоянного инновационного мышления и принятии обратной связи от клиентов. Мы благодарны нашим клиентам и партнерам, которые поддерживали нас на протяжении всего пути, способствуя развитию наших продуктов и нашему успеху.

Смотря в будущее, наша команда полна уверенности от возможностей, которые есть впереди и которые мы должны достичь. Мы остаемся привержены предоставлению клиентам лучшего пользовательского опыта и непрерывному совершенствованию наших WordPress продуктов с каждым обновлением.

Blocknotes is a new experimental app that runs WordPress natively on the iPhone. It was created by WordPress core committer Ella van Durpe and is powered by WordPress Playground, a project that runs the software in the browser without a PHP server.

“WordPress’ ecosystem can now run anywhere – desktop, mobile, web, even fenced ecosystems,” WordPress Playground creator Adam Zieliński said, sharing a screenshot on Twitter.

“Blocknotes allow you to create notes with Gutenberg, save them as HTML files to iCloud, and synchronize them across your devices. This paves the way for future WordPress-based mobile apps and that’s just a start.”

Zieliński eplained that this particular experimental app is technically a WebView that runs a HTML page where the WebAssembly version of PHP runs – the same one as on playground.wordpress.net.

“Browsers and other JavaScript runtimes all adopted a common standard that is WebAssembly,” he said. “Turns out you can build many ‘regular’ programs, including PHP, to that standard and then you can run them in the browser.”

The significance of this app running natively on iOS is that it demonstrates the possibilities of running WordPress in many new contexts without the requirement of a server. Zieliński believes this implementation can even be turned into an app template to build a WordPress app with the click of a button.

“Playground, as a WebAssembly software, brings WordPress to Node.js, mobile devices, desktop apps, ecosystems like VS Code that support JavaScript extensions,” Zieliński said. “The mobile app, desktop app, and a hosted web app could all use the same code and also provide a Playground-based demo version.”

Zieliński said he expects to see people building mobile apps in the future “with nothing more than a WordPress plugin.” This would drastically reduce the learning curve for creating and customizing mobile apps.

“Or even better, with no code at all – they’d just use the admin interface to configure a WordPress site to look and act like an app,” he said.

“Changing the app look and feel could be the same as switching a theme in WordPress.”

Zieliński has a virtually inexhaustible spring of ideas for how the WordPress Playground can benefit the ecosystem and his passion for the project is evident in a recent interview on The Code and Coffee Show.

The Blocknotes app offers a solid example of WordPress Playground working in the real world. It’s a use case that seems to have resonated strongly with developers as a new way to run WordPress across platforms.

WordPress Playground is being developed to become “the official WordPress previewer,” according to the roadmap – the officially supported tool for testing WordPress plugins, new features, beta/RC releases, without expensive infrastructure. Demos and testing sites can be launched instantly by clicking a link. The project also promises to provide an interactive learning experience for WordPress documentation to help new developers.

Opening new doors for WordPress is also on the project’s roadmap, for the creation of tools that run across multiple devices. WordPress Playground removes limitations developers have lived with for years.

“Let’s enable a new generation of WordPress tools running on desktops, mobile devices, in CLI, and inside web browsers,” Zieliński said. “Imagine WordPress as a cross-device note-taking app, or WooCommerce as a ticket-scanning app running on a phone, or a code editor running on a tablet where you can build WordPress extensions.

“WordPress won over 40% of the web as an app that can only run on a server. What will happen now that WordPress can run on almost any device?”

A lively discussion is happening on the Gutenberg repository about renaming the Command Center. This new feature, designed to be an extensible quick search and command execution tool, was introduced in Gutenberg 15.6. In version 16.0, it came out of the experimental stage and its API is now public, ready for developers to create their own custom commands.

The Command Center is on track to land in the upcoming WordPress 6.3 release but may be arriving under a different name. Automattic-sponsored contributor Reyes Martínez opened the discussion and identified three main purposes the feature is meant to serve:

“The concept of a command center can convey the idea of a centralized location to execute commands and manage tasks, but it seems a bit technical and carries some militant connotations,” Martínez said. “Additionally, after reading some feedback left in Riad’s call for feedback, my impression (from a marketing perspective) is that this name may not fully convey its potential and different use cases.”

Martínez contends that “Wayfinder” as a name “better captures its different use cases” and “reflects benefits, and appeals to a less technical audience.” She also suggested that it “has the potential to evoke a sense of curiosity, exploration, and discovery in more types of users.”

Two Automattic-sponsored contributors responded with support for Wayfinder as the name shortly after the discussion was posted. Nearly every other participant has highlighted concerns about using Wayfinder and suggested other names that more clearly describe the feature. The term does not have a direct translation in many languages and leans heavily towards navigation, leaving out the other purposes the feature is meant to serve, such as running commands and actions, as well as AI and other third-party integrations.

“There’s two things here. One is ‘What is it?’ and the other is ‘What is it called?\'” WP Engine developer Ross Wintle said.

“I would rather it was just called a command palette on both counts. This is by far the most common term in use to describe this kind of thing. I see no need to stray from popular convention. Anything else is either confusing or marketing and I don’t like either.”

He suggests WordPress adopt the term based on its well-documented use throughout the industry for similar features in apps like Sublime Text, VS Code, GitHub, Jira, and others.

“We did hear Matías call it a “Wayfinder tool” in the WordCamp Europe 2023 Keynote, so at this point perhaps making arguments for it to be called something else may be moot, I’m not sure,” WordPress developer Aurooba Ahmed said.

“However, I was curious about the argument that a term using the word command would be less appealing to non-developers, so I wanted to document names around the internet for command palettes that I’ve seen in non-developer tools/services (to augment @rosswintle‘s documenting of tools and what they call this feature as well).

Ahmed cited apps using “Command Palette,” including Miro, Reflect, and Obsidian. Another common name for this feature is “Command Menu,” used by Todoist and Cron. She also cited ClickUp as using “Command Center” and Missive using “Command Bar,” among other apps with similar terms.

“I’m sure there’s more, these are just the ones I could think of, off the top of my head,” she said. “I’m not sure I consider the argument that a name with the term Command would be less appealing to non-developers a very strong one.

“That’s not to say that WordPress shouldn’t choose a different or unique name for this feature. However, then at this point I’m wondering what kind of name is wanted: one that feels new and different or one that clearly communicates its purpose and easy to remember?

“Those ideas don’t have to be mutually exclusive, but going against a fairly internet-wide informally established naming convention and understanding of a certain feature should have a solid reason behind it.”

Automattic-sponsored contributor Nicholas Garofalo noted that the name itself will not be prominently featured in the interface, based on recent mockups.

“The name, like Gutenberg, will be used primarily for marketing and documentation,” Garofolo said. “That influences naming and translation concerns.”

“Even differences in US vs UK English make it extremely difficult to find a catchy (Ie. marketable) and universally understood (Ie. easily documented) name. That’s why I agree with the aforementioned recommendation that we treat this a bit like ‘Gutenberg’ or ‘plugin.’ If this were appearing frequently within the interface then I would perhaps feel different.”

Other suggestions from speakers of different languages include Actions hub, Finder, Quick commands, Quick actions, and Quick finder. Even if Gutenberg contributors are determined to emphasize the navigation aspect of the feature at the expense of its other capabilities, a term like Quick finder is more easily understood for the 52% of WordPress users who use the software in a language other than English.

“The term ‘Wayfinder’ is very much associated with navigation and not with taking actions or giving commands,” WordPress developer Ian Svoboda said. “This feature’s purpose is to make it easier to run commands and move about the dashboard.

“A term like Wayfinder feels like marketing speak more than an actual feature name. Consider the difference between saying: ‘use the Wayfinder’ and ‘use the command palette.’ In the later example, the meaning and purpose is immediately clear. So sure someone else may not know what a ‘command palette’ is but I’d wager way more folks know what a command palette is than a random feature in me specific app called Wayfinder.

“I would ask that we focus on being easy to understand and to translate above trying to be clever with a name.”

The issue for renaming the Command Center is still open on the Gutenberg repository and discussion is ongoing. The general consensus of participants is to use clear language over a term that evokes curiosity (and likely confusion since it doesn’t translate well). A decision has not yet been made but should be forthcoming as WordPress 6.3 Beta 1 is expected on June 27, ahead of the general release on August 8.

Had a chance to ask some random questions with a few attendees at WordCamp Europe 2023 and ask them some fun questions.

In May 2023, WordPress’ Community Team announced that it would be evolving the WordCamp format to promote adoption, training, and networking for professionals, leaving the flagship events to focus more on connection and inspiration. This major shift opens the door for more experimentation through varied formats. In a recent update, the team shared that progress on the discussions has generated 64 ideas with 59 organizers who are willing to follow up on their ideas.

There are also eight pilot events that have been confirmed and six of them will launch in 2023. These include some of the most creative concepts that WordPress has ever officially entertained, as the previous WordCamp format had become predictable and requirements somewhat inflexible. These pilot events offer a glimpse of what events could look like going forward.

The WordPress community in Leipzig, Germany, is planning the first ever Low-Cost WordCamp for July 1, 2023. Organizers will host 90 attendees and keep costs low with no swag, no social dinner, and no after party. They will offer just one track of presentations.

“The goal is to motivate and help new and veteran organizers to create a lighter, impactful event that is low cost and requires less time, financial resources, and fewer organizers/volunteers,” Automattic-sponsored Community Team contributor Isotta Peira said.

Contributors in Sevilla, Spain, are planning a “WordPress Day” on July 2, 2023, where the focus will be engaging 50 attendees in three different areas of contribution.

“The goal is to bring new contributors to the community and retain them by organizing multiple events every year,” Peira said. With these small numbers and limited goals, this effort could easily be organized as frequently as they anticipate.

The community in Tegal, Indonesia is planning a “Scale Up” Workshop for October 22, 2023. A group of 50 participants will join in a 1-day training event that will expand their WordPress skills by “diving into the world of WordPress for enterprise.”

The three other approved pilot events for 2023 include a Rural event for small towns/villages, a WP for Publishers in Bangalore, and a Community Day in Rome, Italy, designed for WordPress community organizers, scheduled for September 29.

All of the confirmed events fall within the new purpose for WordPress events that the Community Team identified earlier this year:

Prospective event organizers who are inspired by the confirmed pilot events can submit their creative ideas via a dedicated form. The Community Team is still accepting pilot events for 2023 and is also scheduling into 2024.

Join WordPress guest host, Chief of Staff and Head of Operations, Chloé Bringmann, and special guest Head of Programs and Contributor Experience, Angela Jin, in the 58th episode of the WordPress Briefing as they discuss the next generation of WordCamps.

Credits

Show Notes

Transcript

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I’m your guest host Chloé Bringmann. And here we go.

So I have the privilege of guest hosting this episode of the WordPress Briefing. And today I have with me a very special guest. The Head of Programs and Contributor Experience, Angela Jin. Welcome. Before we dive into all the questions, can you tell me and our listeners a little bit about your role in the WordPress community?

Yeah, happy to, and thank you so much for having me. I’m very excited to be here. I am the Head of Programs and Contributor Experience, and I provide oversight and guidance for our WordPress programs, such as our events programs, training, and Five for the Future, with an eye toward ensuring their sustainability and growth. I’m very fortunate to work with our contributors across many teams around the world. In addition to troubleshooting and helping folks figure out how to move forward, I also spend a good amount of time exploring with others what could be in our programs.

We just got back from WordCamp Europe in Athens, Greece. It was such an energizing event for me, but I’m curious about what your impressions were of the past week.

Yeah, it was fantastic. I’m always really inspired by what a group of like-minded people can achieve together. There’s a lot of passion for this particular WordCamp, and it made for a really wonderful WordPress experience. Full of lots of great connections and memories; I have a million follow-ups and probably even more thoughts to reflect on. So it’s great. There were a lot of new WordPressers there. So it was lovely to meet them. And I’m really excited to see how many exciting new projects and ideas that we have in the space.

Same, you said it perfectly. Josepha also mentioned in the flagship’s keynote, the proposal for the next generation of WordCamps. I’m curious about what the main ideas and goals, as discussed thus far, are of that proposal.

For sure. So WordCamps have been fundamental for the WordPress community for a very long time. And while they have continued to grow larger and reach more places around the world, it’s also undeniable that the way that people meet has changed since 2006.

And so, just as WordPress itself iterates we’re looking at iterating on WordCamps so that they move from fundamental to indispensable for the WordPressers of today and tomorrow. So event attendees today are looking to learn essential skills, make connections that lead to neat opportunities, and more.

So to that end, we put forth an updated purpose for our events, which is that WordPress events spark innovation and adoption by way of accessible training and networking for users, builders, designers, and extenders. We celebrate community by accelerating 21st-century skills, professional opportunities, and partnerships for WordPressers of today and tomorrow.

So the goal here is to create events that are more clearly defined – who these are for what you will gain from attending. We are looking to see events that take a deeper dive into content, or topics and provide more advanced content. And let’s try out some different formats and see how that shapes our event experience. And so it is a big shift. And change is always hard.

However, the feedback that I’ve gotten so far, and certainly at WordCamp Europe, is that this is a very welcome evolution. And the Community team has already received over 60 proposals. So I’m very excited about that. In fact, a WordPress Community Day in Rome has already been announced and is focused on providing meet-up organizing and community management skills. So that’s pretty cool.

Wow, that’s incredible. I love that we’ve gotten 60 suggestions already and that we already have an event in place. That’s fantastic. In that blog post, too, it’s mentioned that WordCamps should prioritize inclusivity and diversity. How can organizers ensure these values are upheld in the next generation of WordCamps and beyond events? Into our day-to-day project involvement?

Excellent question. So while WordCamps themselves are changing, some of our core values, like prioritizing inclusivity and diversity, are non-negotiable. For the whole project, we have a diversity, equity, and inclusion statement, and a Code of Conduct that lays out how we expect our community to engage with each other in this space.

And on top of that, our programs do focus on providing resources and training like how to create a diverse speaker roster. And we have diverse speaker training workshops on how to organize a diverse and inclusive WordPress event. And we also have a great list of third-party resources as well. And so, with so many events, we create a lot of opportunities to grow as a visible contributor, whether it is a speaker, a volunteer, or an organizer.

And so with the next generation of events, we could more intentionally create these spaces for groups that historically have been underrepresented. Even long before my post went live, the BlackPress meetup group, for example, wanted to create an event that connected with historically black colleges and universities. And an event like that that really invites a specific group to learn all about WordPress would be a really great experience and a wonderful way to celebrate that community and a great connection to the broader community so that we can intentionally get to the diversity that we want to see.

And I also want to add that the people who are underrepresented in our community are more likely to need financial sponsorship. And so even though we do keep our ticket prices low so that our events are more easily accessible, the cost of travel continues to increase, not to mention the time and energy required to participate in these events. So an excellent way that companies can help is to sponsor somebody’s time and somebody’s contributions, which we’re always trying to encourage through the Five for the Future program.

Beautiful. So, with that in mind, how do you foresee the next generation of WordCamps impacting the WordPress community, that larger ecosystem? So, what changes do you hope to see regarding community engagement, learning opportunities, and best practices?

I foresee us evolving our tried and true event format into a dynamic wealth of community-led opportunities. I know that online events were pretty exhausting during the worst of the pandemic, but there is a ton of unexplored opportunities there. And community research is also showing that online is a great way to create more inclusive and diverse events.

The Training team, with their learn WordPress online workshops, have really led the way with our online events. And there are so many more people that we can reach there.

And so in addition to providing more advanced content, I also hope to see content around broader tech and business trends that influence WordPress, and conversely, how WordPress can shape those trends as well. And with all of that, I really hope that we can bring in more community members that otherwise wouldn’t be interested in what we currently offer, especially a younger generation that will help us drive the next generation of WordPress, the open source project.

Very excited to hear all of this, and I bet our listeners are too. I’m curious how they and community members can provide feedback or get involved with this next generation of WordCamps.

I’m going to encourage everyone, please come chat with the Community team and comment on the current posts. We really welcome your feedback to help us get our events to this next iteration of what they will become. There are two posts, in particular, one is to suggest ideas of event formats and topics that you would like to see. And the second is if you are an organizer, we’re inviting you to hear some recommendations for improved tooling that would be helpful for your event site. And we’ll include links to those posts in the show notes.

One final question for you, Angela. Any thoughts as we prepare for WordCamp US and the Community Summit, which will be in National Harbor, Maryland, in August?

For the Community Summit in particular, if you want to attend and you haven’t already applied, please please do make sure to apply as soon as possible. And encourage somebody else who you think should attend to apply as well.

And if financial constraints are a blocker, we are aiming to help with the cost of hotel and or flight. And so one way to help support the diversity and inclusion of this event, and really to the whole project, is to also contribute to the Community Summit travel fund. You can find information about all of that on the Community Summit site.

And next, if you have a topic in mind that you think needs to be discussed at the Community Summit, please please also share that information with us as well. And last but not least, I am, I am so excited. I’m not going to spoil anything. But I have been working with the WordCamp US organizing team and looking at some of what they have planned and some of the content. It’s going to be a truly incredible event, so don’t miss out.

Oh, wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me, Angela. And I can’t wait to see you and the WordPress community in August in person.

Which brings us now to our small list of big things. First up is the proposal and establishment of a new WordPress contributor team, the Sustainability team. Coming into WordCamp Europe, a proposal was put forward to create a team that would embed sustainable practices and processes in the ecosystem to ensure the Project’s longevity, both socially, economically, and as well environmentally. At WordCamp Europe, this proposal was confirmed, and the Sustainability team is now officially the 22nd contributor team that WordPressers can support with their contributions. Head on over to their making WordPress Slack channel, #sustainability, and join the conversation.

Second, I would like to call your attention to the 6.4 development cycle post that was published on June 5th. 6.4 will be the third major release of 2023 and supports our diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts by being led by those contributors that identify as underrepresented gender. This release will also be the first to kick off phase three of the Gutenberg roadmap, which is collaborative editing and workflows. I’ve included a link to the post in our show notes and encourage anyone who is interested in being part of this momentous release to join us in making this both impactful and meaningful.

Finally, WordCamp US, as discussed, will be upon us before we know it starting on August 24th at National Harbor, Maryland. While tickets may be sold out, volunteers are still very much needed to make the flagship event run smoothly. So stop by us.wordcamp.org, raise your hand, and join us in August for engagement, inspiration, and learning. And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. I’m your guest host Chloé Bringmann and thank you for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing.

Isabel Brison and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss Gutenberg 15.9 and 16.0, New Posts on the Developer Blog and the WordPress 6.3 release.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Hello and welcome to our 84th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast. In today’s show, we will talk about Gutenberg 15.9 and 6.0 releases, new posts from the developer block, the roadmap for 6.3 and a little bit of WordCamp Europe. I’m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and the WordPress developer advocate and a full-time core contributor to the WordPress open source project.

And I have the wonderful pleasure to have Isabel Brison with me on the show. And Isabel has been a designer, developer on the Block Editor for almost four years, I think. And is the editor tech co-lead for WordPress 6.3, and therefore knows quite a bit about the features coming to WordPress 6.3. Isabel, thank you so much for making the time today to be on the show.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: We are both on the 6.3 release squad. So you are the tech colleague for the editor, together with Ramon Dodd. I’m on the team of editor triage with Nick Diego, Anne McCarthy and Firoz Sabaliya. Both of us, Firoz and I, are first-timers on this release squad, team four editor triage. So that’s going to be interesting. And we are less than two weeks before beta one.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: What’s happening in a release cycle before beta one and what after?

Isabel Brison: So right now, from an editor tech lead perspective, what happens before beta one is we need to make sure that all the latest changes from Gutenberg plugin, so more than from the plugin itself, from the Gutenberg repo where all the cutting-edge stuff is being worked on. All those changes have to be transported into the core repo, which is a different repository.

So part of that process is automated. I say all the changes, but in reality, it’s all the changes that are stable enough to make it into core. Because in Gutenberg, there’s a lot of experimental stuff that is not necessarily ready for core yet. And so part of the process is that the editor tech lead, in this case, the leads, because there are two of us, we have to make sure that the right changes are being put into core, that everything is working well.

Part of that process is you can say automated because essentially, in Gutenberg, you have a lot of JavaScript which is published as NPM packages and/or consumes those packages. So that part of the process is you update the packages, you publish the packages, the latest versions. And then we update the packages in the core repo to get those latest versions.

However, there’s also a fair amount of PHP in Gutenberg, and that part needs to be transported across to the other repo manually. And so that’s where we have to go through all the changes that require adding PHP to core and do pull requests for each change set and review them and commit them individually. So depending on how many changes, and we’re talking… So Gutenberg has been growing a fair bit.

We have a lot of contributors now, and so there’s a lot of changes in each release. And so this process can become a bit overwhelming if there’s a lot of stuff. And now we’re counting down to beta and going, “Oh, we need to get all the back ports in, in time before beta and in time, preferably, to be able to test them a bit in core and check everything’s okay before beta’s cut.” So that’s the path of the process that we’re at now.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So there’s a lot of shifting around and talking to contributors and testing as well maybe beforehand. Is there also a process to audit some of the experimental APIs that are there if they can be made stable?

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Because that was one of the contentions that sometimes experimental stuff gets into core.

Isabel Brison: So that’s also something that occurs before each release. There’ll be an audit in Gutenberg of all the experimental APIs. So this is interesting. This situation of the experimental APIs has evolved a bit over time. So previously, up until, I want to say maybe a year ago, but I have a very, very hazy sense of time. So it might be more or less.

There were a lot of experimental APIs that would be merged into core because they were part of a Gutenberg feature that was considered stable enough. The feature itself was considered stable enough to move into core, although the API had not been marked stable. And so in practice, there’s a fair few experimental APIs that are public. And because they have made it into core at some point in the past, we now have to support them indefinitely because there are extenders out there using them in the real world.

So we can’t scrap them, we can’t make changes to them. And so essentially, they are stable but there’s a lot of them. And there’s some progress, slow progress in marking things stable for each release but we have to go through a lot of APIs. So every time before the release, I feel like this work should be done maybe a bit more in advance as opposed to being a month earlier or three weeks before beta.

Because by that time, everyone’s just super busy with, “Oh, but we need to get this feature finished and we need to make sure this is working. We need to fix all these bugs to make sure that this feature’s stable enough to make it into core.” And at that point in time, no one is concerned about whether the APIs are marked experimental or not.

So the good improvement that we had a while ago was that a new system was introduced into Gutenberg that allows us to export experimental APIs as private. And so that means from a package, there’s a bunch of private APIs. And they can be used in another package, but they are not made available to the general public. And that makes it safer to have these APIs be experimental for a while longer and be able to make changes to them without having to provide the indefinite back compatibility for something that we, at some point, realized was not the right API.

So this is all work in progress. So I did that audit recently, and what I noticed is that there are not that many. Now that we have this mechanism that allows us to mark APIs private, we’re not actually putting any new experimental APIs into core. The ones that are already there, though that’s another matter, we progressively stabilized. But it is definitely a work in progress.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: That’s awesome. And I think for the show notes, there was a process and that was proposed at the Make blog a while ago. You’re right, I think it was almost a year ago. And I have the feeling that about three or four months ago, Adam Zelensky, who was one of the drivers of this new feature or new method on how to handle experimental APIs now, he has published a progress report on how that’s working now.

So for the listeners who are interested into getting really into the nitty-gritty of it, that is definitely two posts for you to read. So now just for the people that don’t know you, you have been a guest on Gutenberg Times Live Q&A in January, and you were talking about layouts. How is the work progressing? And how was your talk at WordCamp Asia? So I’m just getting some of our listeners caught up with you and what happened.

Isabel Brison: Back in February. Yeah, it was. And so what happened is, layout is progressing slowly. So there are a few small enhancements that are going to be going into core 6.3. One of the things that I actually just merged this PR earlier, which is to stabilize the layout support. So the layout was one of those experimental APIs that have been in core for a while.

And because they have been there for a while and they’re actually being used in production by a few plugins, they are de facto stable because we do have to provide that compatibility for them. So it becomes absurd at that point to still have the API marked experimental. So layout has just been stabilized. I guess that’s the big news.

It doesn’t mean anything in terms of features. Literally, it’s just the tag. The experimental tag is no longer there. I hope that going forward, this is going to give folks more confidence that they can use layout in third party extensions and it works. It would’ve worked anyway because we did have to provide those assurances already. But it’s good to have it officially stable.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: You were also talking about working on the grid layouts. I have seen there are still experiments. Well, now that you are part of the release cycle there until the release, you probably are not going to be able to work on that. So do you think that’s going to get into 6.4 or that it’s progressing?

Isabel Brison: So that’s a good question. So grid layout. So what happens is a new layout has been created, it’s available. So through the layout API that is no longer experimental, anyone can now use a layout add. So add layout support to a block. Say you’re building a custom block, you can add layout support to it and you can make that layout be of type grid. So that is already available in the plugin.

And what is marked experimental, and will not be shipped in 6.3, is the group grid variation. So the group block has a few different layout variations, and behind an experimental flag in the plugin, there is a grid variation for the group block. However, that hasn’t been marked stable yet because what we have currently, the grid layout is a very basic version. It’s a very basic type of layout.

There are a lot of features to grid, there are a lot of very interesting and good thoughts out there about how we can build on it and create awesome tools so people can build really cool grid layouts. However, we only really have that basic structure that gives you a grid layout without any real possibility of configuring for the child lock. So if you want them to occupy one space in the grid, two or three, which is what really gives grid all of its flexibility, is that ability to manipulate and decide where the children are going to sit.

So for now, that group grid variation is not going to ship, but grid is actually going to ship in the post template block as a layout variation for post template. So we previously had in the query block the command… The controls are actually in the query block.

So you could choose between a list or a grid layout type of query. But what those controls were doing were actually setting a kind of custom layout in the post template block. And because it was a custom implementation, there was no possibility to add a block space and control to it. And because people really need to have the ability to change block spacing and post template, we did the refactor.

And now post template is using actual layout support, so block spacing can be set on it. And so behind the scenes, it still has the custom toolbar control where you can choose between a list or a grid type layout. So the exposure of actual grid layout controls is kind of limited, but it is using grids. So technically, yes, there is one lot that is shipping with grid layout in 6.3.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Excellent. Well, that was the catch-up with Isabel Brison on the layout. So thank you so much. So let’s go a little bit further into our show here today.

Announcements

We have another announcement. Since the last Gutenberg Changelog, there were five new posts on the developer block. And one was just published this week that’s, “What’s New for Developers?” by Justin Tadlock. And that’s the fifth installment of the monthly roundup showcasing features that are specific for theme and plugin developers.

And it focused a little bit on the 6.3 development cycle. It’s more like you can test it now, so your plugin and your theme will be compatible when 6.3 comes out, or just make sure that it doesn’t break kind of list. But it has a lot more other things in there. Ryan Welcher published a tutorial on how to use the block inspector sidebar groups that came in with 6.2.

And now, as a developer, you have more control over the custom controls that should be appearing in the… Inspector controls are what’s showing in the sidebar, just to place that in the canvas where you see all those custom controls. So if you want to, as a plugin developer, add additional controls to, say, the dimensions, you can group the interface for that to show up in the style tab, in the dimension block.

And he has some nice code examples in there. Justin Tadlock also published customizing core block style variations in theme.json. And it’s a walkthrough through the block styles directly in theme.json. Instead of using them in a custom style sheet, you can centralize all the things a little bit more in the theme.json. Curating the editor experience with client-side filters, post by Nick Diego, shows off also the new filters that were introduced in 6.2 and how you can change the editor experience with new client-side JavaScript filters, and has some great examples there for your block development.

And then lastly, the first one is useentityrecords hook as an easier way to fetch WordPress data, by Michael Burridge. And it’s part out of the WordPress data package and core data packages. And the hook has been extremely useful to fetching and working with data in your block development.

And this tutorial shows you how it’s easier to use entity records instead of the getEntityRecords from the data package. This only is for developers of course, it’s to develop a new block. So it won’t help anybody who is a no-coder. But you know that you can curate the editor experience or your developer can curate the editor experience. It’s something that you can, as a project manager, definitely learn more about it.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: We’re all catching up on quite a few things to make it easier to do block development, and the theme development and also augment the dev notes that certainly talked about the new groups for the inspector controls or through the client-side filters but not as deeply enough. Sometimes it’s really hard to get the exact use case, or if you don’t have examples for various use cases, to get it into an idea and how to use it in your project.

What’s Released – Gutenberg 15.9

So that brings us to what’s released. Then we are tackling first the Gutenberg 15.9 release that’s from May 31st, by about two weeks ago. And it included 171 PRs merged into this release from 58 contributors. Seven of them were first-timers, and Carlos Bravo was a release lead and author of the release post. So let’s dive in.

Enhancements

There are enhancements that you can now have block variations transformations in the block switcher. So what does that mean? It means that when you have the inserter and you want to do a transform, you can also offer the block variations from it, if I understood this correctly.

Isabel Brison: The block switcher is in the block toolbar, correct? It’s in the block toolbar. When you click on the block icon, you get a list of the possible transforms. So apart from other blocks that you can transform the block to, you would get variations of the same block also as possible transformations, which I feel existed at some point in the past and then was removed. And that has been re-added. I’m not sure. I might be wrong on this. I just have a vague feeling that this is familiar.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it sounds really familiar. I don’t know if it actually includes the styles as well. Because the styles are on the right-hand side and you have to now… But it doesn’t. So it’s the block variations because the blocks’ variation have other names. But they were actually organized in the transformations further down with the prioritization. You probably can get them higher up in the block switcher. So this is definitely something I would support even if it went back and come back.

Isabel Brison: Yeah, makes it easy. And you get style variations too for blocks that have style variations. This is actually pretty neat.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And you don’t have to open up the site, but to just get the style variations in there. Next thing up would be that the code block now has wide align support. And that is really good because sometimes the line in a code block is creating horizontal navigation bars, horizontal scroll bars. And now, with the wide support, you can make it a little wider and have that one line not remove the horizontal scroll bar, which is a better reading experience.

Isabel Brison: Yeah, that’s a good aesthetic improvement too. It can be nice to have wide code windows so you can read the whole thing in one go without having to scroll.

Isabel Brison: What’s the next one? I wanted to mention that in 5.9 a PR was merged that removed the post content block from the list of blocks that can be inserted in the post editor. And that makes sense because the post editor is basically what we get inside the post content block. So if you tried to add a post content block to the post editor, it was getting an error, which was a really bad user experience.

And so the block was rightfully removed. But in the meantime, someone noticed that there was a possible use case for the post content in the post editor because we can add query blocks in the post editor. So inside your post, you could have a little query with some categories or something like that. And there is a legitimate use case for having the post content block sit inside the query, and so inside the post template that you have inside the query.

Because if you have short posts, if you have a custom post type that’s fairly short, you might want to actually show the whole post in there. And so a PR was quickly done to fix this and allow for that use case. I don’t think it went into… It didn’t. No.

Isabel Brison: It is going to go out into… It did? I’m pretty sure that it was only merged yesterday.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: … It wasn’t backported. No. So it will come back for 16.1.

Isabel Brison: So in 16.1, we will be able to use post content inside queries inside the post editor, which is pretty cool.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: One other use case is from a different custom post types, you want to show some of the posts in there and in your blog post. And there are many use cases I can think of it when you wanted to query something else and need to post content in there. So the next one is the Wayfinder or Command. I think there’s still a discussion going on on the naming of the feature.

Wayfinder was also not the one that was… It feels right for me, but I’m kind of English Westerners. But in the eastern hemisphere, it was a little bit differently seen. And for translated, it was really hard to find a good way. So the discussion goes on. But in the meantime, the Command’s API has marked in public, so you can use it and test it for your plugin or your WordPress install.

And Riad Benguella’s post Command Center request for feedback also contains some code examples on how to use the API. And you can create static commands, dynamic commands or contextual commands. And so you can try it out and see what it all does for you. It’s like a search bar that you don’t have to go through. You click control K, and then a search bar comes up on the interface and then you can type in some search commands. And it gives you a list of items that you can do, like add page or add post or something like that. Have you played with it?

Isabel Brison: It’s really cool. It kind of reminds me of the Spotlight on the Mac. I don’t know if Spotlight is the best name for it, but in my head, I’m calling it Spotlight. Because basically, it just pops up, this bar in the middle, and you can search for stuff and you can do stuff from it.

It is great. I wanted to add that I think possibly also in 5.9, there was a PR that added the ability to invoke the Command Center by clicking on the template name at the top of the site editor. So that’s just another super practical shortcut.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, 15.9. So what else is in there? The interactivity API is still in experiments. And do you want to talk about the lightbox and the directives?

Isabel Brison: Yeah. I thought I’d mentioned it because it’s super exciting. It’s still very, very experimental. At this stage, it is unlikely to make it into 6.3, which on one hand, I’m slightly sad because lightboxes for images are really cool. On the other hand, it is still behind an experimental flag in the plugin. It hasn’t actually seen a lot of real-world testing.

So it’s also good to get some testing done before actually merging the feature into core. It’s very new, it’s very promising. So the whole interactivity API is a really interesting piece that’s been worked on for ages. It seems like ages. I don’t know. It can’t be that long. But I’m so excited about it because it provides a really neat way of adding interactive behaviors that’s usually only achievable with JavaScript to playing blocks.

And so it’s going to add a bunch of behaviors out of the box for core blocks, but it’s also going to be possible to use that API in the future to create custom behaviors for custom blocks. So it’s just a really nice way of standardizing a way of adding JavaScript to blocks to create dynamic behaviors. And the first experimental one or the first experiments to be put out there in the plugin is the possibility to add a lightbox to images. So if you enable it, you can click on the image in the front-end and then the image just pops up in full screen kind of thing, which is pretty neat.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And I know that Luis Herranz did a workshop at WordCamp Europe last week. There was quite some buzz around the interactivity API. Because it mostly is also in the PHP render file where you can just add the directives or add the call for the directives. So it gets a lot of PHP developers also excited about block development and adding the interactivity to them.

And the excitement is also around being able… which is not going to be in the first version, even if it makes it into 6.4, that you can actually create your own directives. So the core will come out with, I don’t know, 15 or 20 directives that have a lot of use cases, cover probably 80% what a developer would need.

And the combination of it, be it data binding, be it button actions, being other interactivity. So this is a really exciting feature to come to block development. And I think it’s one of the missing links to get other people excited about building with blocks and JavaScript. And get the first vendor with PHP and then have the client-side changes through the API is really cool.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: The cat. So the next thing is that the text formatting tools in a paragraph have now two new attributes added. That’s the long language, so L-A-N-G, and the D-I-R, the dir attributes, which helps with multilingual posts. So you can add a language like French or Italian IT to a paragraph, and then a signal to the assistant technologies and the reader, “Okay, this is a different language.”

And the dir part is that you change left to right, right to left rendering of that. And the code, almost verbatim, is used from Jean-Baptiste Audras, who had a plugin that added those two formatting tools to the paragraph.

And the subsequent PR also now uses the bidirectional text override element from Mozilla. But it’s good to have these additional formatting tools in there to cater to the multilingual content that you find all over Europe. So this is really cool.

Isabel Brison: Not only is this really cool, but I am fairly certain that this is a longstanding issue from the accessibility audit way back when that the last time I checked was still open. So it might be a good idea to go over there and see if that issue can now be closed.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: That was definitely a missing piece. And that was also the reason why Jean-Baptiste added that to his companies or that his company built the plugin to help their clients with that kind of formatting. So there is a new API to allow prioritization of inserter items.

If you have a block list setting, you now can allow the parent blocks define the priority for the blocks that are allowed in it, and how the inserter displays them for the inner blocks of that parent block. So that is definitely another customization and curation tool for the extenders with their block development.

Isabel Brison: Oh, yeah. For sure. That will be great to provide more custom user experiences for certain block types. Definitely.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: I think we need to somewhere create a list of all the extension possibilities because I don’t think there is an overall list of all the possibilities on how to extend now. Sometimes there’s still missing documentation there of course. Not of course. But I found that some of the extensibilities like the inspector controls, the documentation’s in the README for the source code component but doesn’t bubble up into the developer handbook of the editor.

So I know that Nick Diego and Ryan are working on that together with Michael to figure out this architecture of missing stuff. Next thing is it sounds really benign, renaming template parts to library. So in the side editor on the left-hand side, there was a menu item called template parts. And that will be renamed into library because it will also house reusable blocks and patterns, reusable patterns or sync patterns, I think they’re called.

The template parts, of course, will be also underneath it. I don’t know how far the syncing of pattern or reusable block is going because there’s a lot of confusion since the beginning: what is a pattern? What is a reusable block? And what is the template part? And they sound to be the same, but they all have one thing different of them. And there is an effort to unify it a little bit, and just manage what’s different instead of have three different items for them.

Isabel Brison: I think that that would be great because reusable blocks are essentially patterns or they were already working as patterns, although they have the block itself. When you create a reusable block, it’s frozen, right?

Isabel Brison: If you make changes to it, you’re making changes to all reusable blocks to the content. Whereas patterns, you drop a pattern in somewhere and you make changes to it and you can continue using that pattern elsewhere.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: But yet there’s this big problem that when you have a pattern and you change the design of the pattern, you cannot go back and have that change as well on all the time all the uses that you had, because there is no record of a post using a pattern. Because once it’s in the canvas, it just is the blocks that are inside the patterns.

Isabel Brison: Yeah. So I think the fundamental piece here is being able to have patterns where the design can be changed globally, even if the content of the pattern is individual to each instance. And it’s a pretty complex piece of work. It’s being actively worked on. There is, I think, an effort to consolidate reusable blocks and patterns.

So I think the idea is going to be that reusable blocks are going to be absorbed and become patterns of a type. But it’s still fairly early stages considering the complexity of the endeavor. So at this point, it’s not certain what, if anything, of that work will actually make it into 6.3.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I can see that. And because the reusable blocks have actually also an interface to edit them, which the patterns do not. And that’s also something: how can you make those editing interfaces be used for both of them? There are a lot of different things that need to be aligned differently to make it all work, and I think it’s a fairly complex thing. Yes, you’re right.

So the next part for 15.9 is that the global styles get revisions. And that has been on the feedback list and on the wish list of a lot of people who have participated in the Full Site Editing Outreach program and have been very faithful in doing all the testing, the calls for testing and having a revision.

Because you know that when you change colors and font settings and things, you don’t know what you get until you see what you get. You don’t know what you want until you see what you get. And then all of a sudden, “Oh, maybe I liked that previously better.” But then you don’t remember the combination of what it was. And now you have revisions and you can see them side by side. So this is a very exciting new feature that will come in, and it seems to be making to 6.3.

Isabel Brison: Oh, yeah. That one has been merged and it’s definitely going to make it into 6.3.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: There might be UI changes, but it will show up in the styles right-hand side and the sidebar under revisions. And then you get a list of all the revisions in the canvas and you can see them all together.

Isabel Brison: So you can access the dark sidebar on the left-hand side. If you go to the styles and you see if the theme has style variations, they’ll appear there. But also in the right-hand side, global style sidebar, you can also access the revisions on the styles actions. There’s a little button at the top.

Experiments

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Excellent. Yes. Under the experiments of 15.9, there is a list items called the behaviors UI. And that’s part of the interactivity API, I believe.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And that is kind of a standardized way to attach behavior to an element or something like that. As I said, it’s in the experiments and I think it’s part of the lightbox behavior. That’s the only behavior that’s available right now. But what else can you think about what this could do?

Isabel Brison: Yes, I believe so. So say that you can define certain types of interactivity for certain blocks as, for example, the image can have a lightbox, but we don’t want all images on the site to suddenly have lightboxes.

And so the behaviors UI is something that it provides website authors, users with a way of enabling those interactive behaviors or disabling them for any given block. So it’s an important piece because certain behaviors might not be applicable to all blocks on the site and you need to have a way of turning them on and off.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And so that will be part of the advanced interface on a block-based level in the sidebar.

Gutenberg 16.0

And now this week, 16.0 was released and Nick Diego was the release lead, and he wrote also the post. And it had 164 pull requests by 54 contributors. So it’s always a good size of contributors adding code to things. And there were four first-timers as well. And this comes with one feature we are all excited about. But do you want to take us into it, Isabel?

Isabel Brison: Yeah. So the feature that we’re all excited about, there’s actually a couple of features that we’re all excited about. One of them is the ability to add new pages from the site editor directly. Now a disclaimer, the ability is to add draft pages, not to publish them directly. But that’s great because the first thing that you do when you add pages, work on it is a draft, and then only afterwards you publish it.

So it’s good. It’s the start of being able to do everything, having the site editor as the center from which you can do anything to your site, including create pages, edit them possibly at some point in the future, publish them. So that’s a pretty great new feature to have. It can be accessed from the left-hand sidebar.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: The new page also helps when you create new navigation menu where you want to access or point to a page that doesn’t exist yet. So this certainly helps as well. And I saw some discussion around it for that to work well and it show up in the list of searches that the page is actually published. So it’s the question, “What is a good way to move forward?”

But what I am really excited about is that I can now edit a page in its context and I see how it works in context of the template. So I see the header, I see the footer, I see if there is a sidebar and how my content behaves that I create for the page. It allows me. And I know from the feedback of the Full Site Editing program, there was quite some feedback that there is a confusion between, “Am I adding the page or am I adding the template?”

And some people edited the template thinking it was a page, and then found that edited piece or that added piece on every single page because they inadvertently changed the template. So the possibility was taking out of the site editor, but it’s coming back now with some guardrails. So you know when you edit a template, all of a sudden, the title changes to page title instead of saying about us.

And it also highlights that you are editing now a template part instead of the page itself. So I think we are getting really closer to have more a unified system of editing and not having to switch out from the site editor to the post editor and back in the admin where you have multiple back steps to get to the old page editing screens. So I’m really excited about to get this all in one interface.

Isabel Brison: So that’s the second feature, what I was saying when I said there were two features. New pages, but also the ability to be able to tell at a glance if what we’re editing is the page’s actual content or the page’s template. So now it’s only possible to either edit one or the other, but not both simultaneous setting. That’s a pretty good one to have in there because otherwise it would be extremely confusing.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, absolutely. And then there were a few, I don’t want to say small changes because it definitely takes an effort to get it in. But the list view got two additional, I would say, quality of life changes, the dragging. So you can now drag outside the immediate area and get into a different drop zone element there. And it’s now easier to position a block on top or on the bottom of the list.

Before, it was really hard to get on the bottom of a list when you drag and dropped it. And then the other one is that sometimes in the list view, your container blocks collapsed. And when you dragged a new block into that container, it always put it on the top. Now it makes more sense to put it on the bottom because I added to it.

So when you open up the collapsed block again, you have all the new containers or blocks that you dragged into it on the bottom of the group block, for instance. So I really like those features. They make it much easier to be a little bit more predictable in what you’re doing and behave like that as you think it would. Intuition is an interesting thing. Sometimes you get it right, but sometimes you get it wrong, and 50/50 is a pretty good ratio for that.

Isabel Brison: Yeah, true. And it often takes a few iterations to figure out what the best behavior is and what’s most intuitive because it’s not always obvious. When you’re conceptualizing something, you’re thinking, “Oh, let’s build this new feature. It’s going to work like this.” But then in practice, it’s like, “Oh, actually that doesn’t work very well at all.”

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So what else is in there? So I stopped at the details block. The experimental flag for the details block was removed and the blocks itself was stabilized. Now you have the two elements: the summary and the details. You can certainly style them accordingly. And now you can also add them to your canvas and it works out of the box. So this is more, it’s a block.

And we talked about it before, I think, in last episode as well as the one before. Because it was experimental and we were kind of going back and forth on it. It’s the block where you can use it as a spoiler alert. You can hide the details of your movie review that would spoil for those who haven’t seen the movie, spoil the movie ending or that part. Or if it’s just minutiae detail that only two or three readers would need, you can hide them in the details block, and then you get an error to expand it into the details from the summary.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And it was long in the making. It will make it into 6.3. I think there are two other blocks that are on the verge in core, but I don’t think they’re going to make it. The one is the table of contents block, and the other one is the footnotes block or blocks.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: It doesn’t seem… There wasn’t any movement on the table of contents block for about a month. So I’m not sure that anybody takes it on because there are two things that still need to be done there. And the footnotes block, I think Ella is working on that. And she is having two different variations where that needs to be a decision, which one will be pursued or not. And with two weeks to go, it might be a little bit tight.

Isabel Brison: And it’s not two weeks, it’s closer to one week actually because for the packages… So for all the JavaScript pieces, what happens is we’re going to grab the release candidate for the next Gutenberg plugin release, which is going to be 16.1. And publish the packages from the release candidates with any bug fixes that are necessary after RC is cut. And those updated packages are what’s going to make it into core before beta one. And because the RC is going to be created towards….

Isabel Brison: … the end of next week. It would usually be on a Wednesday. It is likely at this point that it’s going to be Thursday or Friday. Given that both editor tech leads for this release are in Australia, we can conceivably do it on our Friday morning.

And that gives a little bit of extra time. It’s still Thursday night, everywhere else in the world. So at this point, that is likely to be the plan. And so what’s going to make it into beta one is anything that can be merged until that date, which is essentially one week away.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it’s one week away. We are recording this on June 15th, and beta one is the 27th. But the next release candidate, that’s going to be the 23rd or the 24th. So continuing with 16.0, thank you for this explanation on how tight it actually is with the timeframe.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: High alert. So the query pagination block, another feature is that you can hide the label text for the next and previous. You have three choices: you can have an error, you can have carets or you can have text and now you can have both. But you can hide the previous text for it and just have the errors. So that’s a feature that is on par with the query pagination form classic themes, which is really cool.

And I highlighted one other thing, and it’s only really relevant for developers that want to get into how to use the HTML tag processor, Jeff Ong refactored the search block to actually use the HTML tag processor. And I think it’s a good case study on how this actually makes it easier or more readable to use the HTML tag processor instead of rejects in PHP. So I think it’s the PR51273, if you just want to get up and listen to this, get up and look at it. Of course, it’s in the Changelog 16.0. Have you worked with the HTML tag processor?

Isabel Brison: Yeah, I used it a while ago to do some layout-related stuff. So I think I actually was the first person to use that API in Gutenberg. It was still in Gutenberg, hadn’t been in motion to call yet and it was just being worked on by a few folks. And I was doing a layout-related task where it was trying to add the layout, the class.

So in a block when you have layout support, you get class names that will say what kind of layout it is, and then you can hook styles to them and stuff. And most blocks just have one wrapper. Blocks that have inner blocks have wrapper, inner blocks. But there are some blocks that have a bit more of a complex markup structure.

And so the idea was that the layout classes should be added to the inner wrapper so that they can have an effect over the inner blocks of the block. And that was a piece where I found using the HTML tag process, it was super handy because I had to locate the inner wrapper of a given block. So that was a great API. It is really, really helpful for that kind of work with PHP when you have to go digging around for some HTML and you don’t want to use rejects.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: I think it’s not tied to WordPress. You actually can use it in any PHP code, so reaching out to the bigger universe outside of WordPress. It’s definitely an enhancement of the language as well. So another line item from the Changelog is that the post template now has block spacing and layout.

Isabel Brison: Well, it went through a few iterations. It was one of those PRs that end up taking a month and have 80 comments on them. Well, maybe not 80 comments, but there was a fair amount of reviews and re-reviews and, “Should we do it this way? Should we do it that way?”

Backwards compatibility was a concern because the blocks in production, there are lots of websites using it, so you can’t break stuff for real-world users. But it’s done and pretty happy with it. We talked about it a bit earlier. I don’t think it’s probably necessary to go through what it does again. But I think there’s a lot of folks who are going to be happy with this one.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And I think that answer shows it’s kind of one answer that I had conversations with people at WordCamp Europe, and it’s one question I also gathered at WordCamp Asia. And it’s really hard to answer it because the question is, “When are design decisions made and who makes them?” And it’s very hard to explain that iterative process of developing these new features that haven’t been in WordPress before.

So there is an initial design that comes from the design team, but then all subsequent is iteration on how the flow is going to be. And as you said, there are 80 comments there, so that it’s definitely a community approach to it, or at least a subset of developers trying to figure that out in a team.

And testing comes about, and then there’s going back to the drawing board and then start again. So there is not really that one decision-maker and that one design that is zeroed in on. It’s more really what the idea was, and then we do the implementation. And then it’s how it works in context with the other things and it needs to be adopted.

Isabel Brison: It’s very much a process. And depending on the complexity for any big piece, you’ll have a bunch of discussion even before the thing is built. And then, while it’s being built, there might even be more than one PR, there might be, “PR one, this approach.” And then, “Ah, but there’s another approach that we could try. Let’s do another PR and try it.”

And then people will test and compare the PRs. And we are a very opinionated community, I’ll tell you that. People will jump on and review and critique and give opinions and go, “Ah, this is not going to work for this case. And what about this plugin that break things for them?” And then after all that discussion, something will be agreed. It’s slowly chipping away and finding a way forward when it’s, “Okay, can’t do this because blah, can’t do that. I’ll maybe try that. Okay, that works. That works in testing. Let’s try it.”

And the good thing about Gutenberg, about the plugin and this process of working experimentally is that you can merge something into the plugin and try it out, review cycles. And then get feedback from the extremely vocal and passionate community that we have, which I’m super thankful for. It’s great to be working on a project and have people just go and, “Oh, that’s amazing,” or “Oh, sorry, that doesn’t work for me. We really need to do that instead.” And you always know where you are. You know, “Okay, I’ve done this thing. That worked. Well, maybe that didn’t work so well, we’ll need to iterate on it and do something else.”

Birgit Pauli-Haack: But sometimes it can be a little tedious, I give you that. But I think the product gets better for it when everybody starts, opens the listening ears and kind of see, “Okay. Yeah, that’s certainly valid and I see that use case. And let’s see if we can include it into the design and into the feature.”

Isabel Brison: Oh, yeah. For sure. And because no one person knows everything, you build a feature, you have your own view of how that feature’s going to work. And then someone else has a completely different view. And it’s by getting a lot of different views that we manage to do things that lots of people can use in different ways.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So that answers some of the questions, but maybe not in that way those who ask those questions actually like it. Maybe they just want somebody to blame or something like that. I don’t know what motivates that kind of question.

Isabel Brison: I don’t know. And sometimes things are subjective. And working on layout-related features, I can tell you that everyone has their opinion on how it should work. And sometimes opinions are clashing because one person thinks it should work this way and another thinks it should work that way.

Nobody’s right, nobody’s wrong. We just have to try and figure out which approach is going to satisfy the majority of use cases. It’s impossible to build a tool that will do every single thing. So it’s kind of what works best for the most people.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Alone the decision to have the toolbar on top or on the block. I don’t know if the community is 50/50 split, but some people like the toolbar directly on top of the canvas, and some people like it to be close to the block that they are just editing on. But it could also be situational. And these design decisions, it’s hard. It’s then kind of, “Okay. What’s the design of the feature to change the setting?” It gets you into to the next conversation with other people about a feature.

And so it’s an iterative process and it gets better and better while listening and trying to get it in. So on 6.0, I think we are almost through. We already talked about the Command Center, making the command selectors and actions as well for the public API. And then there is one bug fix that I like to point out, is the fix, the multi-entity, multi-property undo and redo.

I think that is something that really we are waiting for quite a bit that when you highlight something and you delete it and you do undo, you only get one back or two back, but not all of it, for instance. And you cannot redo it because it didn’t have a memory of what the other properties were. And that has been fixed. And it really happened, and it happened to me, and I think it happened to anybody who experimented with multi-selection at one point.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So this is fixed and I just wanted to point out, “Yay.”

What’s in Active Development or Discussed

So that brings us to the active development or What’s Discussed section. And I had the idea to actually go to the roadmap of 6.3 and look at things that will make it into 6.3 and two and what’s not done yet. But there are a lot of links there. And we definitely know that the new blocks’ table of content footnotes are probably not going to make it.

There is also the introducing UI to safe patterns or all the things around patterns. I’m a little bit doubtful that we see some of the additional equation flows for patterns in that, what’s on the roadmap and what already happened but it’s not part of WordPress 6.3, is the curation filter in the pattern directory. So some core contributors went through the public pattern directory and created a few patterns as well under the WordPress moniker or user account, and then added that.

So when you go to the pattern directory, you now have not only the categories there, like header or buttons or text or images. You also have a dropdown to select between curated and community. And the curated are the best of the best. Some of the community contributors or WordPress contributors think that those should be highlighted a little bit better or higher or are created by WordPress core contributors.

So that filter is available now on the pattern directory. It does not yet seem to make it into the pattern inserter that you can do that. But that is definitely on the roadmap, but it’s not yet done. So I think that the stabilization and usability of the toolbar, the list view and the link control UI, custom list views and library management, those things are almost done going into 6.3. But there is the box shadow component. I think that has already been merged from the design tools. No, that hasn’t yet.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: Well, the box shadow that you can attach it to all the blocks I think is the one. There are box shadows enabled for certain blocks.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And the style block is exposed in the style preview, I think, and details.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So it takes a little longer. I think we make this for once we know when beta comes in, what is actually in the release of the features that made it. So in two weeks, when 16.1 stable comes out that’s passed the beta one release, I think our Changelog, the show will go through the roadmap and check off all the things that come and didn’t make it into 6.3.

And then we have a better conversation than doing it now in just projecting or estimating. And I’m very bad at predicting. My crystal ball is really in the shop, so I didn’t know where to go with that.

Isabel Brison: Predictions are always hard. And I think you kind of have to be in-depth knowledgeable about the work that’s being done. But if you’re just looking from outside and trying to have a bird’s eye view here of seeing what’s going into the release, it’s impossible.

I just have to go and ping people what I’ve been doing these past few weeks going, “Oh, hi. What do you think about this feature? Will it make it in? Are you happy to continue working on it? Is it mergeable within the next week or so?” That kind of thing. And so essentially, it’s a whole process of just talking to everyone and trying to figure out what stage they are at with the work and what I can help with, that sort of thing.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And I think an indicator is… And I will share the link to the project board for editor task on 6.3, so we all can follow up on that and see how that is. Because that’s updated quite a bit between the editor triage team and the core leads tech teams. So core leads.

Isabel Brison: Mainly what I’ve been doing on the board is adding in PRs for back ports to core. I see that there is a bunch of stuff in progress and needs to review columns in this board. I’m not 100% sure of the status of some of these. Some of these PRs definitely, I think, at this point it’s unlikely that they’ll make it in.

So the fact that it’s on the board doesn’t mean… And even if it’s marked in progress, it doesn’t mean that it’s actually going to make it because it can just be a PR that’s been sitting there for a while and it’s on our wishlist. We would love to do it. But if no one’s actually actively working on it at this point, then it’s unlikely to make it.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: And I know that at the editor triage team, we are going through that as well and kind of figure out what comes in as issues from the testing parts of those. So to be sure the features that are in the Gutenberg releases 15.2 to 6.1, if they are not labeled as experimental, will make it into 6.3. So going back to the previous releases of Gutenberg, you can pretty much predict, “Okay, this is going to be in there.”

What will be hard is to find out, “Well, you will be at 6.1, the release candidate will be next week.” And that kind of closes the feature freeze pretty much for 6.3, unless there’s something that is pushed through as a placed task by several core committers to say, “Yeah, that can make it and that will go in there.”

All right. Well, this was a long show today. Thank you so much for staying with me, Isabel, and providing so much great insights in the development and the design process as well as the release process. Is there anything that you want people to know about 6.3 or Gutenberg project that you are excited about?

Isabel Brison: I think we’ve pretty much covered most of the things about the general processes. I’m pretty excited about the changes to the site editor and new improvements with browse mode. I hope everyone else is equally excited. I think this is going to be a pretty good release. Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun chatting about this.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: So if people want to get in touch with you, how can they find you? What would be a good place?

Isabel Brison: I am on GitHub as tellthemachines. I am on WordPress Slack as tellthemachines also. So ping me on Slack. I’m usually online during the week, Australia time.

Birgit Pauli-Haack: All right. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. And I want to point out, we have a Gutenberg Times Live Q&A coming up on July 6th at 17:00 UTC. And that’s about using Gutenberg scripts and components to revamp a plugin. It’s a case study and we are talking with the lead developer and the tech lead from GiveWP that have worked on their 3.0 revamp.

And they have used most of the Gutenberg components or based it on WordPress components and scripts. And it opened quite new perspectives for them. So I am really excited to have Jason Adams, the director of development and Jon Waldstein, the lead developer of GiveWP on the show on July 6th, 17:00 UTC. I will share the link in the show notes.

Reserve your spot. And it’s a usual live Q&A where we have some demos, and then we talk a little bit about the project and then we answer all the attendance questions.

As always, the show notes will be published on gutenbergtimes.com/podcast. This is episode 84. And if you have questions, suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to changelog@gutenbergtimes.com. That’s changelog@gutenbergtimes.com.

Thank you all for listening. I’m looking forward to talk to you again in two weeks. Thank you, Isabel Brison. And I am so happy to have another show for you. That’s it.

After a week home from WordCamp Europe, I am still on a high from meeting all my WordPress friends and making new ones! I also learned about new products, and new APIs. A huge thank you to the sponsors, organizers, speakers, volunteers, contributors, and attendees. It was a fabulous WordCamp, the biggest in the World.

Athens is a great big noisy and beautiful capital of Europe and the birthplace of philosophy and democracy. I thoroughly enjoyed having a couple of days beyond the WordCamp to visit some sites and experience the antique and the contemporary of Greek art.

Speaking of art. My heart made a little jump when I saw the big boxes with Postcards from the Museum of Block Art, at the Community Booth. They were part of the swap exchange game with WordPress trivia. WCEU Attendees received four cards of the same design in their swag bags, and could get the other designs by swapping them with other attendees. To get all eight designs, MCs would pose WordPress Trivia questions from the stage and attendees needed to come with the right answers to the community booth to get an additional post card design. I don’t know who many people actually appreciated the work of the artists or the work it took to get all the 2500 swag bags filled or how many people actually still write postcards. I found it a wonderful idea and took quite a few left over postcards with me.

Developing Gutenberg and WordPress

Did y’all see what the WordPress design team has been working on? It’s fantastic! Joen Asmussen lists great things in his Design Share: May 22–Jun 2

This week, I had the pleasure of having Isabel Brison, Editor Tech co-lead for WordPress 6.3 release, as a special guest on the Gutenberg Changelog #84. We discussed the releases Gutenberg 15.9 and 16.0 we caught up on the Layouts and what happens at during a major release cycle before Beta 1. The episode will arrive at your favorite podcast app over the weekend.

Justin Tadlock published the What’s new for developers (June 2023) with briefly updates on synced patterns, the Interactivity API, the public API of the Wayfinder (Command Center) and more.

Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners

The Drupal Gutenberg module is used on more than 3,000 Drupal websites. Frontkom, a 120-person agency, uses it exclusively when building Drupal sites for clients. In the article ,we also learn that Matt Mullenweg will send “some Gutenberg experts to join the sprint without any cost to the Drupal community”.

Doc Pop‘s latest Press This episode is titled: The Frost Theme is Here. He talked to Brian Gardner, the creator of Frost after he submitted WP Engine’s Frost Theme to the WordPress Theme Repository. Brian Gardner’s other block themes in the repo are: Powder, Design Mode, Bright Mode and Avant-Garde. “When I realized sort of what blocks were, how patterns worked and the trajectory of where this was all going, I got really excited. So two years ago I started creating this theme called Frost.” Gardner says on the show.

In his WP Build podcast episode number 330, Get lots for free with Maxi Block Nathan Wrigley interviewed Christiaan Pieterse. “Maxi Blocks has all the blocks that your typical website needs. I could list them all here, but just click the link above and you’ll find them. There are containers, headings, images, maps, groups, icons, sliders, all-the-things so to speak. ” Wrigley wrote.

Have you ever looked for a way to make a group block as a whole clickable? The plugin Hyperlink Group Block plugin might be the right solution. It allows you to combine blocks into a group wrapped with a hyperlink (<a>). After inserting a Hyperlink Group Block, a Block inserter icon will be displayed to allow you to add new blocks inside that Hyperlink Group Block. You can also transform an existing group block into a hyperlink block. Thank you to Jeremy Techtmann who tweeted about the plugin in reply to Keith Devon’s question: “How can I make a group of blocks into a link?”

Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks

Kathryn Presner published her tutorial Custom CSS in the Site-Editing era on WordPressTV. WordPress 6.2 introduced two new ways to add custom CSS to your site: a global CSS editor, and a per-block CSS editor. Both methods let you add CSS overrides directly in the Site Editor, to tweak the way your site looks. In this session, Presner covered the differences between the two types of editors, and how to use them effectively and appropriately. As a rare occurrence on WordPress TV, Presner also provided the code snippets and a fabulous list of resources in the comments as well.

Nick Diego hosted Hallway Hangout: Let’s chat about WordPress 6.3 and block theming and posted the summary on Make Theme Blog. “The session began with a brief demonstration of the changes coming to the Site Editor in 6.3, notably page management and new editing flows. If you have begun building block themes for clients or are interested in block theming, this session is especially for you.” Diego wrote.

James Koussertari wants you to have an understanding blockGap in WordPress Block Themes. He looks at what it is, how to enable it, how to use it globally or for specific blocks, plus how it affects spacing presets & scale.

“Keeping up with Gutenberg – Index 2022”
A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test and Meta team from Jan. 2021 on. Updated by yours truly. The index 2020 is here

Carlo Daniele wrote a tutorial on how to build WordPress Block Patterns, puts them into context with Template parts and Reusable blocks, and then shows you methods how to create them and add them to your theme.

Have you ever wondered what exactly that “area” property is for when registering template parts in a block theme? Did you know you can register custom areas? Justin Tadlock explored in this post how to upgrade the site-editing experience with custom template part areas. You learn how to register them, add them to your them and provide the right places for your users to work with template areas.

Brian Gardner takes you on a journey Exploring Color in WordPress Block Themes. The article is an introduction to the color related sections of the Site editor and theme.json: You learn how to handle color settings, palette, gradients, duotone filters, style variations and color contrast. “Colors are the magic ingredients to bring your website to life, setting the mood and defining the user experience. ”

C.S. Rhymes built a VS Code Extension Gutenberg Comment Highlight. Because Gutenberg uses HTML comments to store attributes and styling, usually the IDE styles it with light gray color, which makes it very hard to read, when you spend time in block themes, patterns, or blocks. This VS Code extension color codes them like other code snippets. Thank you to Justin Tadlock for the find.

Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.

Join Nick Diego, Michael Burridge and Ryan Welcher for the next Developer Hours on June 30th, at 15:00 UTC (9 am EDT, 17:00 CEST) They will showcase extensibility methods that empower builders to extend and customize the WordPress editing experience. This event will begin with a few demos that explore client-side filters, slot fills, and custom block development. Then the three will be available for AMA-style discussion. Whether you’re a developer, designer, or WordPress implementer, this event promises to provide valuable insights into Editor extensibility and foster an open exchange of ideas.

Nick Diego wrote about his experience exploring How to modify block supports using client-side filters, when the feature is not yet available for the core blocks. He writes about the powerful client-side filter blocks.registerBlockType that allows you to modify block supports, such as border, color, dimensions, and typography of core/blocks.

Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don’t hesitate to send them via email or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph.

The module was one of five projects, selected from 35 proposals, that was granted funding during the DrupalCon Pitchburgh innovation contest. The winners were announced as part of Dries Buytaert’s State of Drupal presentation at DrupalCon North America 2023 in Pittsburgh.

“Since Automattic is the main developer behind Gutenberg, I shared the Gutenberg proposal with Matt Mullenweg, co-founder of WordPress and CEO of Automattic,” Buytaert said. “Matt was really excited about the idea of more Drupal sites using Gutenberg, and he kindly offered to provide the full €20,000 in funding through Automattic. Furthermore, he will be sending some Gutenberg experts to join the sprint without any cost to the Drupal community.”

The Drupal Gutenberg module is used on more than 3,000 Drupal websites. Frontkom, a 120-person agency, uses it exclusively when building Drupal sites for clients.

“Our clients love it,” Frontkom sales director Thor Andre Gretland said. “In fact, we haven’t built a Drupal site without Gutenberg since we started the project back in 2018.”

In his pitch video (embedded below), Gretland said the requested funding will be used to take the project to the next level by arranging an in-person workshop for a few days. They intend to gather people from the WordPress core team who have built the editor, the Drupal core team that knows the needs and possibilities for the admin initiatives, and the Drupal Gutenberg team that built and maintains the module.

Gretland listed several things he hopes the teams can create together, including a Gutenberg starter theme and a starter pack, where Gutenberg is setup with a complete frontend as a base theme or theming reference, as well as the ability to make it work work within the layout builder.

“Our goal is to make sure that the Drupal Gutenberg of the future is always using the latest and greatest version from the WordPress team, and better enable Drupal developers to contribute back upstream,” Gretland said. “We want Gutenberg more tightly integrated with Drupal and to do this properly we need to gather the people that should be involved. This is a great opportunity to extend our cooperation across open source projects and to move forward making Drupal the most easy to use enterprise CMS.”

In 2005, Timothy “Wolf” Bishop was serving time in an Iowa prison for charges related to a gambling addiction.

“When I was 25, I made a bet that I could not cover,” Bishop said. “I had gambled with a local thug on a local semi-pro baseball game between the Burlington Bees and the Clinton Lumberkings. I bet on the Bees, who lost the game without even scoring.

“I did not have the $10,000 I had bet. When I told the man I owed this, he was less than happy. He put a gun to my head and told me that if I did not have his cash in one week, he would put a bullet in my brain. I had the money three days later.”

It was the crimes Bishop committed to cover that debt that got him sent to prison. Now an experienced professional, entrepreneur, and educator, who has spoken at numerous WordCamps, he credits WordPress for changing the trajectory of his life and helping him find a place of stability.

“It saved my life,” Bishop said. “I am not being over-dramatic when I say that. If it was not for WordPress, I would either still be in prison or dead.”

During the time Bishop was incarcerated in Rockwell City, the Iowa Department of Corrections began allowing limited internet access to inmates, and he was fortunate enough to be in one of the select prisons. Writing a personal blog was one of the allowed activities, so Bishop went on the hunt for a blogging platform to use. He had already tried many of them, as he had been into open source software since the mid-90’s.

“As I was also fighting to overcome my gambling addiction, I had the idea of starting a blog about my experience as a sort of self-therapy,” he said. “I tried TypePad first, but did not like it. Less than a month later, I discovered WordPress thanks to a correctional officer who had a blog of her own.”

The officer had maintained a blog for the past several months and recommended to Bishop that WordPress would be the easiest and best for his needs. This was in the summer of 2005, just a few months after WordPress 1.5 was released with a new “Pages” feature, a better templating system, and the Kubrick default theme.

“I was at a point in my life when I knew that I needed to change, and drastically, or I was going to be in prison for the rest of my life, or worse….dead,” Bishop said. “I know that sounds over dramatic, but I swear it is true. I hoped that by blogging about my battle with addiction, I could better overcome it.”

His first blog launched in September 2005, and he posted weekly for just over one year.

“Prison is a place where hope is in low supply,” Bishop said. “You have to watch your back every minute of every day. Before WordPress, I got in a ton of trouble in prison. I spent a lot of time in the hole. I had nothing to focus my time or energy on, so I fought and walked around with a giant chip on my shoulder.”

At one point he realized that he needed to change if he wanted to survive, get out of prison, and stay out of prison, but he was struggling with how to make this happen. Bishop attended Gamblers Anonymous (GA) but described himself as a somewhat shy person and found it difficult to open up to other people in the group.

“You cannot effect change until you open up,” he said. “So when I found WordPress I was able to remain somewhat anonymous, and that made it easier to open up. I could write about my struggles and my feelings. I had some place safe to vent my fears and frustrations and anger. I had a safe space to process childhood trauma and self-destructive thought patterns.”

In January 2007, Bishop was released from prison and went into a work release program. These kinds of programs have employment requirements and have been shown to lower the recidivism rates among prisons.

“It was then that I discovered how difficult it is to overcome the stigma of being a felon,” he said. “No matter how much I wanted to do better and succeed, it proved to be more challenging than I expected. Within three months I was sent back to prison for a parole violation after losing my minimum wage job.”

Bishop, who describes himself as “a pretty intense mix,” of being bi-polar and living with ADHD on the Autism spectrum, found it difficult in prison to manage the mental and emotional health issues that led him to a gambling addiction. Mental health resources for prisoners can be scarce, but blogging helped him find a way through.

“I guess you could just call it personal talk therapy,” he said. “By writing about the experiences I had, being in prison, and how I was feeling, I was able to address my demons and work through the thought patterns that kept leading to destructive behaviors. I guess you could say it was more like a publicly accessible journal.”

Launching a WordPress Career Fresh Out of Prison

What Bishop learned in the work release program in 2007 about the challenges inmates face after prison became even more clear when he was finally released in 2010. Even though he had fully completed his sentence and was not on supervision, the challenges remained.

“Every GOOD job I applied for shot me down the second they learned I was an ex-con,” Bishop said. “From 2010 until 2015, I struggled to get a job that would pay the bills. I worked dead end fast food and temp jobs.”

In 2015, he and his wife were homeless with three small children living in a tent in Texas. It was this year that he was given the opportunity that launched his career in WordPress. He was offered a support role at InMotion Hosting.

“They took a chance on me and they paid for us to move to Virginia Beach,” Bishop said. “At first, we still lived in a tent and then a hotel. From there it was an upward trajectory and my career has continued to grow.”

In the years following, Bishop has worked in various support roles and branched out into launching his own development and hosting companies. He is now on his fourth WordPress business, WP Octane, which follows two that failed and two that he successfully built and sold. WP Octane started in 2016 under the name WP Top Hat, and was geared towards being a 1-stop WordPress shop.

“The idea was to have a company that provided everything a business needed for its online presence,” Bishop said. “But trying to provide managed hosting, ongoing care, content management, marketing, SEO, and several other services proved to be more than I could handle on my on.”

In 2019, just before the pandemic hit, he decided to convert to just a managed WordPress host with ongoing care plans included, and changed the name to WP Octane. For the next two years his small startup struggled to thrive during the pandemic, although he did see some growth.

“Finally, in early 2022, WP Octane became profitable for the very first time,” Bishop said. “Since then we have continued to grow, albeit slowly.”

In late 2022, after investing more into infrastructure, WP Octane pivoted again to offer low cost shared WordPress hosting that serves a middle of the road between shared and managed.

“We limit tenancy of all servers to a fraction of what most shared hosts have,” Bishop said. “We introduced features that allow us to outperform most shared hosts and come pretty close to matching performance of a managed WordPress host. We have virtually eliminated many of the typical pitfalls of shared hosting like the dreaded noisy neighbor syndrome.”

WP Octane still offers fully managed plans with ongoing care included as they did previously, but the new shared platform has taken off better than Bishop expected and is now the company’s primary focus.

Empowering Inmates and Ex-Convicts for Success with WordPress Skills

Bishop is also now invested in giving back through a new effort to launch a prison program that will teach inmates the skills they need to use WordPress. The program is still in its early stages and has gotten preliminary approval from the Missouri Department of Corrections, which is local to where he now lives on 63 acres in the Ozarks. He is working on completing the curriculum, a requirement before it can be fully approved. The target for that phase is early August so it can go to a committee for approval at a September meeting.

“It is this struggle that led me to start this project,” he said. “I want to give inmates that truly want to turn their lives around a skill that can enable them to do just that. If they learn how to work with WordPress, whether it be design, development, SEO, or any other area, they can avoid some of the challenges I faced.”

Bishop said inmates equipped with WordPress skills will not be at the mercy of employers who are unwilling to give them a chance, because they have a skill they can use independently. If they go the route of custom development, most clients do not ask for a background check.

“When participants complete the program and eventually get out of prison, they will have a portfolio that they can show to potential clients and even employers,” Bishop said. “It is my hope that it will increase their chances of success.”

This is a first of its kind program that is still awaiting final approval. In the beginning he is aiming to launch it in the Missouri prison system but said he would love to take it nationwide some day.

Bishop is also working on a related project – a website that lists employment opportunities with WordPress companies that are willing to give ex-offenders a chance. The project is still in the early planning stages as he talks with employers to encourage them to join this movement. His experience with this community has led him to believe that WordPress will be a beacon of hope and opportunity for anyone who wants to make something on the web.

“WordPress helped me overcome addiction,” Bishop said. “It taught me the value of community and that if you are willing to put in the work, you do not have to rely on others to ‘let’ you succeed. WordPress lets you make success a choice.”

This Week at WordPress.org (June 12, 2023)

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Corey Maass and Cory Miller continue the development of their new WordPress plugin, Crop.Express. In this episode, they discuss designing pricing plans and creating a compelling website homepage for their new product. They delve into the intricacies of annual and lifetime subscription options and the inclusion of site licenses for different customer segments. They also explore the balance between providing value and maintaining profitability. Throughout the conversation, they brainstorm ideas, share case studies, and weigh the pros and cons of various pricing strategies.

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Transcript

Session 17 Corey & Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live

[00:00:00] Cory Miller: Webinar. Webinar is live. We’re live session Summit. Corey and Corey launching a product. Okay.

[00:00:11] Corey Maass: So we all go up together. Yeah. You’re probably already standing, aren’t you? I am. Although you’re leaning.

[00:00:19] Cory Miller: I’m leaning, standing, standing. Okay. Yep. We were, uh, just talking through a logo. We’ve had some revisions with the designer, and so Corey was sharing some of the thoughts.

I think this is part of that journey is like, something’s always in the way, you know, that you gotta Yeah,

[00:00:38] Corey Maass: exactly. Like, so yeah, I, you know, so the plugin is coming along really well. Um, but to do, uh, you know, to, to feel like you’re really moving forward, Uh, for branding and marketing, which we’ve talked about a bit in the last couple of weeks, we, we need the logo, which defines the colors.

So the good news is we can, we can take the colors that we’ve got from the logo, um, and you know, and we can, and we can start moving forward with some things. But it’s, um, we approved the horizontal. So if you’re looking at my screen, um, I, what I think they’ve done. Which is fine. Uh, um. Is they took the, originally, I thought it was a white bar over, um, I think it’s Montserrat is the final font, which is great.

Um, and I think what they’ve actually done is, is split it in half, which is fine because that that leaves No, my, my previous issue was there were like little triangles. Based on where they cut it. Um, and so the, the horizontal looks good now, but when you go over to the vertical, what they should have done is, is take the revision of the I M G from the [00:02:00] horizontal and applied it to the vertical.

And I think they took us at our word that they, that we were like, you know, and the vertical’s. Okay. So they were just like, here it is, even though it’s inconsistent. So, One more revision. Um, and uh, and I, I mean, what’s great is, is they are giving us the e p s. You can see I’ve got Illustrator open in the background.

Um, so I can mess around with it cuz I’m still not totally sold on. The, the vertical version, which is not their fault. Like they’ve done what we’ve said. Um, I, so I think we wanna go back to them and say, Hey, you know, please update the vertical, the i m g on the vertical based on the changes that you made to the I M G in the horizontal.

[00:02:54] Cory Miller: really what you mean there is, is not just colors, but is it the bar where the bar is?

[00:02:58] Corey Maass: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The colors of the vertical are fine. Because we, we sort of defined that based on the website we sent them. Um, but you know, I guess it would be, yeah, it would be nice since it would be nice if they finished what they were doing kind of thing.

Um, and then I think at some point you and I like, I think we go forward with this and this is part of us talking about, uh, you know, and, whoops, did I lose my microphone? There we go. Um, You know, part of the journey is, um, just pun just, just moving forward, you know? And so it’s like, I don’t. If they fix the bar, I’m content with putting this online.

I’m not totally sold that, that this is actually the best vertical version, but at some point, you know, it, it’ll occur to us like, oh, the black should be the bottom third of each, or whatever. And. And I’ll go into, you know, either, we’ll, we’ll use them again and say, okay, we need another revision, or I’ll go in and make the change, but good enough for now or go once they make the change.

So it’s at least consistent then good enough. And I was half joking that the, the real reason I’m in such a hurry is that, um, sticker Mule runs specials every week and so their coupons run out and inevitably that’s, um, so how, that’s how we end up with like 10 of the crop express coupon, the stickers that we don’t actually need.

[00:04:42] Cory Miller: Nostalgia. Um, hey, so. Here, here’s my question. What, what are the things that you want changed here? Like, one thing that stick out, obviously the bar you want it moved up toward the top. Omg.

[00:04:58] Corey Maass: No, I, all I want is, um, for them, I think I’ve even got it open, so I just want them to take the, the img. Oh. From here.

Yeah. And, and put it where it’s supposed to, you know, replace what, what they had. So really, there’s

[00:05:22] Corey Maass: Uh, I think there’s, I mean, so it’s like, oh, okay. Yeah. See how there’s, there’s that little carrot taken out right. Of, of the m. But on here, we had asked them to remove it, so there is none.

Okay. So it’s like if they just update the i, the m and the G of the vertical version using the, the revised i m g of the horizontal, we’re, we’re done. Okay.

[00:05:59] Cory Miller: So it, it occurs to me though, when you’re looking at this, the, the OMG fills letter spacing this wider mm-hmm. In the vertical than it is the horizontal.

That’s maybe one of the things I was thinking of, like, can you copy and paste the horizontal into a new, so we can look at it real quick or just pull that IMG down or something so we can look at it. Yep. You see that letter space in here looks way tighter,

[00:06:24] Corey Maass: which it will be because they’re putting the I under the O.

[00:06:32] Cory Miller: It still looks, but look at this space between the O and the M. It just feels loose. Mm-hmm. Yep. Here, I’ll show you. I’ll try it.

[00:06:49] Cory Miller: like it, can you take the IMG right there and put and pull it underneath just to see how Yep, yep,

Showing off my. Amazing skills here, but yeah, if we matched Okay. The M and the G Well,

[00:07:15] Cory Miller: hey, go up. Yeah, yeah, right there. Hold on just a second. Let’s look at that for a second.

[00:07:29] Corey Maass: get it. Oh, I see. Yeah. The white space is so much more between all of the letters. Yeah. It’s just, just which I, which I suspect they did because they’re trying to match. It’s like if, if these are here, then, then it’s more pronounced.

Yeah. Between the I and the M, like there’s no good answer for that right now.

[00:08:05] Corey Maass: So yeah, have ’em have ’em do a version where they’re like, literally put the i m G below the the OMG and center the eye and call it done.

[00:08:18] Cory Miller: Can you move the eye over just so we can see? Yeah. See how it looks. For a second.

I don’t hate it. Right. It’s, yeah. It might be, it might be enough to go live with, and again, at some point it, it’ll occur to us what’s wrong with it or how to fix it. Yeah. Or, you know, we will have totally changed our branding by then or something. Okay.

[00:08:52] Cory Miller: Hold on a second. Let me screenshot that. Okay. I mean, do you like the two bars on the vertical?

[00:09:02] Corey Maass: I’m conflicted because when you get small it becomes unreadable. Right? And that’s honestly how most, most people are gonna see it. Most of the time. Like in, in the plug-in repo, you know, it, you can, you do okay. Where it’s there, but it’s like not contrasty enough. But like in most places it’s gonna end up small, small, and it just, you can’t read it at all.

But I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m kind of, of the mind, like I said now of. Good enough, like this lets us go live and we can, we can change it. Okay. You know?

Sounds good. Um, so cool. That’s that. So honestly, like I will just, I will stop mucking about with the one they sent. Um, and why don’t we just use this for now? Yeah. And essentially live with it, you know, but in, in the wild for a while and see how we feel about it. Okay. Um, cool. So that’s the logo. And then, um, a while ago on AppSumo, I signed up for a lifetime deal of ui, which lets you run te essentially like repeat, click, click, click.

And so, um, I’ve been setting up testing cuz I’m sort of in the weeds with where I think everything’s working. But this way it at least clicks through and, um, makes sure that we have all the basic features.

And then, um, Once that’s done, like I think we’re, I think the plugin version one is, is ready to go. Um, and so honestly, unless you have something else, what I was thinking was we might, like, while we’re sitting here for the next hour, 45 minutes, we’ve got, um, let’s take the wording that we came up with last week and just do a quick bang through of the homepage and plug it in.

[00:11:53] Corey Maass: Uh, so this is our current homepage, omg img.co. Okay. And, uh, on the left and then on the right. Is the words we came up with last time. Okay, cool. So, uh, in builder. So let’s see. What’s cool is we do now have, um, did I close it?

again. I do not know Illustrator very well. One of the things that I always like to do on all of my websites is create a page called Assets.

[00:13:16] Cory Miller: my grandfather, he’s 93 years old. Wow. Yeah. Good for him. He’s the OG entrepreneur.

He sold his business about three, four months after I sold mine, but he had his longer. I told him, I said I might’ve beat him to that, but he beat me in longevity. He had a motorcycle dealership for 40

[00:13:42] Corey Maass: years. Wow. What kind of motorcycles? Honda in Yamaha.

I can’t remember if we talked about this. You’ve rid, you had a motorcycle that you showed me.

[00:13:58] Corey Maass: Four-wheeler. Uh, I’m trying to have a motorcycle. Um, I, yeah, I owned it for about an hour and then, uh, it stopped running, which I knew was always going to be an issue cuz it’s, uh, 1982 something. But I hoped I could work on it, but in the end I couldn’t.

Um, and the. The shop that it went to has now had it for a year, and I keep stopping by and I’m like bringing them donuts and stuff cuz I’m like, how do we move this forward? But so far, no, no joy.

[00:14:45] Cory Miller: using Uber Builder and doing an assets page. That’s cool.

[00:14:50] Corey Maass: Yeah, so this is what I do for, um, all of my sites, um, is like once I’ve got a color palette, um, usually I’m using, uh, colors, col, col coolers or whatever. Um, Look at that rainbow. That’s fantastic. I love those colors.

[00:15:14] Cory Miller: So you create this within Beaver Builder to kind of reference within the website?

[00:15:19] Corey Maass: Yeah. Like, uh, I’ll come in and I’ll drop in the logos. So it’s like, cuz inevitably, you know, you’re, you’re making changes live somewhere or. You know, you’re updating your Twitter account profile or your, you know, somebody’s like, oh, I, hey, could you send me a logo? You know, I’m interviewing you on a podcast and you send me a logo and you’re like, let me go look through a thousand folders to try to find that.

Or you can just say, go to slash assets. Um, just kind of a, a habit I got into a while ago. Um, And then it also helps with like defining, you know, doing this kind of thing where it’s like, once you define, have your colors defined once you can save them, stuff like that. So anyway, um, so we’ll plug into logo later.

Um, so words on the right, what’s, what’s the first one we want to go with? Like what I figure is this on the left will be a product shot. Sure.

[00:16:27] Cory Miller: Let me find, uh, that doc you’re looking at. Website. Got it. Okay. Okay, cool.

[00:17:10] Corey Maass: For your WordPress website. I always like to put in WordPress right up front so that people aren’t like, sure, I’m on Wick. Why can’t I use this? Yeah,

and we can mess with this kind of stuff later, but if we get it to find so professional social images for your WordPress website and content. Okay. What if that’s

[00:18:14] Cory Miller: what, if that’s the subhead and because see, we got in here because your image matters.

What if we make that the headline and then professional social, you know, create mm-hmm. Professional social images for your workforce website and content so that, like the headline is because your l your image matters.

[00:19:02] Corey Maass: I want the, cuz you’re, Because your images matter feels like better English. But

[00:19:13] Cory Miller: overall, you know, I think it’s cuz your image mattered. Like, and that’s all of these things helps you with your, like, it’s more abstract than social images, you know,

[00:19:25] Corey Maass: because your Oh, nice. Got it. Yeah. And the pun about. How people perceive you, your image and Oh, brilliant.

[00:19:39] Cory Miller: and then for this, how about, it’s like an action ver that says transformer create professional social images for your WordPress website and content. Love it.

[00:20:05] Corey Maass: And then of course a big button, not a button group. Not a button, which is right there.

buy, shoot. What’s the normal thing? Get started by, uh, pricing. Um, yeah, buy today works.

Okay. Cool. Okay, so we got top, top header. I think that that, that’s a good start. Yep. Okay. Then we talked about, uh, benefits or on our web doc here we have the before and after.

[00:21:27] Corey Maass: Mm-hmm. So if we did, yeah. So, uh, what, to me, what’s funny here would be. An image is worth a thousand words. The obvious. Yeah. Worth a thousand words.

[00:22:01] Cory Miller: Um, oh, I like that. So I like that because the image could have the before and the after, and then underneath we could have, you know, this list we talked about, like boring afterthought, stale homo placeholder, and then after a sparkle and ties hook, engaged in, compelling, something like that if we wanted to.

Mm-hmm. I kinda though it’s like right, right at top, almost before above the fold. We have a really good explanation

Yeah, so if like, we don’t need to repeat repo before and after, but, so I really like the idea of, um, so basically we, we use our own words to say,

The first one to make it clear what’s going on here before and after. But then you’d say boring.

[00:23:07] Cory Miller: Um, oh yeah, boring still. Afterthoughts, homogenized, placeholder,

So something like that. So it’s like before, before, after. Okay. Here’s an, here’s a simple example. Here’s an, here’s another example of, you know, the landscape and then the enticing. So it’s like, you know, we’re repeating without having to repeat. Before, after, before, after, before, after. Over and over again.

Snail boring and I really like placeholder. And we could do something like, you know, from placeholder. Yeah.

[00:24:01] Cory Miller: From, oh, I like that. From boring to enticing, from placeholder to engaging or whatever that is.

or after from boring to engaging from placeholder. Oh, we already did. Engaging,

oh, bo from boring to enticing from placeholder to engaging something like that.

Please hold her. So there, there, I feel like we’ll want a, a noun. Yeah. I’m boring to engaging. I like better. And then from placeholder to quite well presentable, placeholder to powerful, placeholder to hummus. I don’t know. Um,

[00:25:48] Cory Miller: I like that. We’ll wanna nail the photos, but that’s, that’s the product. Um, yeah, I think that’s great, man.

[00:26:32] Cory Miller: images. I wonder if we say stale. No more stale images since we use Born and Afterthought Above. Mm-hmm. Um,

[00:26:52] Corey Maass: do we have? Three. Okay. Well, uh, you know, we can have as many as we want. It was just, okay,

[00:27:01] Cory Miller: so I think, let’s see. No more still images entice. Do we use entice about entice people to click more value in your images? Uh, I think if we did three, it’d be no more.

[00:28:11] Corey Maass: No more jumping from app to app. Yep. To make your images

Okay. And then, so did you just load a standard Beaver builder page, or do you, is this a template you use for stuff?

[00:28:42] Corey Maass: I just, we, there was one of the websites we were looking at that was just like, there are these rows, and so I just banged out some rows. Awesome. So this is, you know, I have, I have no religion about this page whatsoever.

[00:29:02] Cory Miller: So I think that section is benefits. Then we get down to brass tacks of like features. Okay.

[00:29:12] Corey Maass: So, yeah, let’s for the sake of, I never want to actually like, say benefits, but for the sake of our knocking this out, this is benefits, this is features.

[00:29:43] Cory Miller: I always like seeing how other people do this stuff cuz.

[00:29:48] Corey Maass: Well, exactly. That was part of why I figured we’d do it live. Cuz it’s like, cool, let’s, you know, somebody else can, who has never seen Beaver Builder can check it out and or you know, has never knocked together. So I, and I love what we did. Like normally I’d be sitting here staring at text boxes.

Yeah. Whereas you and I did the words in a Word doc, which is so much smarter, but I’m usually too impatient to do that. Yeah. So, um, So I have a feeling that we can,

featured image, um, keyword stuffing, and I don’t know that it actually reads as English, but

[00:35:21] Cory Miller: Let’s see. Um, each pose, beautiful templates, customization.

[00:36:00] Corey Maass: uh oh. Right. Um, create once, use everywhere. Um, create an image and then resize it for, um, open graph.

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. What’s the only fans? Um, what’s the, the ultra white. Ultra Ultra White. Ultra right? Conservative. We should, we’ll, we’ll just keyword stuff. All of these, you know. Um, Open graph, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Any other channel you yeah.

Yep. Thank you. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, this might be a nuance, but is op open graph not two words?

[00:37:09] Corey Maass: That is a great question. Facebook open. Yeah. Open graph. Two words.

[00:37:21] Cory Miller: Okay. So we need to change that up at the top too. Yeah. Or somewhere we did it somewhere else.

you know, all the social software do these, what sizes are what, but it’s still good content that people want to reference even though we’ve got it baked in. Yeah. So, Some sort images by

So we got six. Mm-hmm. I think that’s a good start. I’m trying to think if we’ve missed anything. I mean, you can save ’em as projects. That’s one. I mean, really it’s a social image generator regardless of the content I. Create images in there. So it’s a social image generator. But, um, just talking out. Thanks.

Make sure I didn’t miss anything. We already have size. Do we have sizing somewhere? No, no. I dot Maybe that’s not a customization. Customizing and resize. No, I don’t know. See,

[00:39:28] Corey Maass: right. The resizing we’ve got. Create once. Use everywhere.

So open graph images for your site, open graph images for each post page, et cetera. Oh, each post

or page. Beautiful, versatile templates. Use our bespoke templates to match your branding or upload your own customization. Um,

[00:40:36] Cory Miller: Make sure and save. What’s that? Make sure and save. Yeah. Is it auto save or do you need to save

[00:40:45] Corey Maass: it every now and then? Um, I think it sort of does, but we can publish as we go cuz it can’t be any worse than the placeholder We already have Command

[00:40:57] Corey Maass: Command s Yeah. Yeah. I really, that’s sorry about the dog.

Um, yeah, I like, I’ve gotten used to like the, Um, code editor. I used Auto Saves and like here in ui, like it just saves as you go, which I’m always grateful

[00:41:15] Cory Miller: for. It’s funny, the old days, you know, you had to command s everything and I still want to do it even box. Yep. So next session section is plans.

[00:41:29] Corey Maass: So yeah, we, we will want testimonials, but we don’t have any yet.

[00:41:39] Cory Miller: mean, in Lugo testimonials, we can say, see it in action, you know? Hmm. With the post status stuff,

[00:41:50] Corey Maass: we call that a, um, what do they call it? A case study. Yeah.

A studies. So how do we want to present this, I guess is the. The question, the case study? Yeah, I, I guess just like a picture. I don’t know,

[00:42:40] Cory Miller: I think we pushed this maybe down below, um, plans for now, but that’s just a first reaction. Um, yeah, I see it in action.

so down here we said see it in action, see it in action. And then here we have plans. So plans on the homepage? I think so. Okay. Um,

so we’re not doing free, right? Um, so currently I think we’re talking about annual Yeah. And lifetime.

[00:43:58] Cory Miller: think a lifetime with the cab, you know, the caveats we discussed, which is sport for one year. But, uh, you know, lifetime upgrades I think is a good starter thing that we know will probably go away. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, so we could have an, we could have annual B two thing, well,

[00:44:31] Corey Maass: do we want to do it that way? Yeah. E D D C E. Um, easy digital download supports. So annual and lifetime, and then also number of sites. And I tend to be a big baby about it because, uh, I always just am happier as a customer when it’s unlimited sites. But I think we can, there’s.

What if we did, um, like the solo, you know, they just have one site. Mm-hmm. And then we did the kind of freelancer agency bundle, and that’s how we kind of differentiated. So like one site is like, I just want the one. Yep. Uh, and then, um, for that avatar, and then for the agencies, we just say like, it’s the bundle, the.

Annual unlimited or the lifetime thing? That could be okay. That could be our three plans. I’m just talking this out with you

[00:45:45] Corey Maass: though. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, so we’re talking about solo one site. Yeah. Basically

main, you know, It’s funny. So let me give you a quick case study. So backup buddy for instance, it they form that form, that product formulated all their pricing plans and mm-hmm. Uh, definitely you see that within the industry, but it was our first big one back in 2010. And so, but our thesis was meant for a backup plugin.

You need a two side plugin. What if your side goes down? You need another one. So we started, we, we sold two side plans. Now, That, that sounds very like reasonable, right? People would say, every now and then, do you just have a one side version? You’re like, are you

it? It’s almost like this. It’s this funny thing within product stuff. It’s like, why am I paying for more than I need? And you’re like, okay. So I tend to think there’s some terminology we put around here. It’s just like you have a website, a blog, whatever that is. Maybe it’s the content creator package, um, and web, we just need one, but that needs to be probably higher because why wouldn’t you just go ahead and get, um,

hold on just a second. And then, yeah, agency plan and lifetime Limited, limited

[00:47:32] Corey Maass: lifetime. So how many sites? So it’s like, yeah. Okay. Yeah, if you want. So it’s um, we’re just mocking this up here. Do, do text editor. So it’s like website.

what? 10, 20. I mean, this is an arbitrary number. Yeah. Let’s start with 10. So 10 site licenses. Yep. Annual subscription. Yep.

[00:48:55] Cory Miller: There you go. Because it’s not really unlimited for everything. [00:49:00] Yeah. Let’s see. That, uh, we use on purchase up time. Updates only support one year. Support

[00:49:10] Cory Miller: So many people paying this, but I go, no, it’s not unlimited Everything. Right. Support is what it costs us.

We’re gonna be doing updates for this for foreseeable future. So like that’s already built in. But support is extra now. People still don’t read, don’t think about it. They put it off, don’t. But I, I think, you know, we, we do a one to three month type thing. Seat, our initial customer list. Mm-hmm. Use them for feedback, bugs, stuff like that.

[00:49:44] Corey Maass: cash too. Oh, whoops. I’m doing these backwards. Yeah.

Yep. Annual subscription agency, 10 site licenses, annual subscription, limited lifetime, and hundred site licenses. One time purchase updates forever. And this is, this is where most agencies will probably jump anyway, right? Cuz it’s like, just buy it, you know, if it’s, uh, I think we’d talked about like 50 bucks.

You know, 300 bucks, 500 bucks, whatever it is. Yeah. They’ll just go, you know what, it’s 500 bucks and we never have to think about it again. Of course we’re gonna do it. Yeah. Hey

[00:50:39] Cory Miller: Corey, I’m sorry for being late today. I need to spin down about five minutes, but here’s my, here’s my thought on this. Let’s think, let’s anchor ourselves for a moment in lifetime and, uh, the lifetime price and let’s go.

Okay. It’s unlimited. We’re gonna for the goal of one, to get cash and also to seed our customer base for features, all that kind of stuff. Um, and then I think we go down, down this box to the left. Mm-hmm. And like, really, I think for this initial thing, we want people in lifetime cause we wanna see that group.

You know, maybe it’s the first a hundred people and then kind of close off, but. I think that could help us price the agency and website stuff because honestly, we’ll want that higher to push ’em up to lifetime, um, for the beginning in, in my mind. Um, so how does, how does that sound like as far as what, what, what, if we go with that for a second, what price will we want to do that?

[00:51:49] Corey Maass: rule of thumb that I go by for lifetime is three years. And, uh, and then here we’re introducing number of sites. So it’s how much, how much value per site times three years. And like we are, we’re saying, you know, a hundred sites, but realistically, you know, it’s.

Kind of like you say, three years. Most people subscribe between two and 300 site licenses. May as well be unlimited, unless you are some bananas agency or you’re cranking out, um, just click bait websites. But so it’s like 20 sites times three years. Yeah, something like that. And so if it’s. Because it’s a big fat discount.

If you were at $30 times, 20 sites times three years, you’re talking about 1800 bucks, which I just can’t, like that’s, that’s the value. But for a new product, I think people are gonna be like, the hell are you thinking?

So I, I guess I, I hear your, uh, your thought process to me. 1, 1 1 website currently, because it’s a new product, $50 feels about right. And so then it’s, so let if, if one website, if this is $50, then agency is $40 per site times 10 sites, and then Lifetime knocks it down to $30 per site. But obviously we can’t multiply it by 99 or by a hundred.

But do you know what I mean? Like Yeah. To me that’s the discount. You’d kind of, you know, buy in bulk discount. The way we’re thinking about this. So it’s like, if this was,

you gotta go. So this might, you know, maybe we leave this as a thought experiment. Yeah. Um, if that’s 49

I have no idea. Because it’s like 40 times. I mean, for 150% you get 10, 10 x the value,

[00:54:49] Corey Maass: That’s kind of what I’m, yep. So backwards 1 49.

[00:55:31] Corey Maass: So yeah, we’ve got, right now we’ve at least got benefits and features on the homepage, stubbed out, and then pricing. We can, people watching, listening, please weigh in. We don’t have the biggest viewership in the world, but anybody who who does have an opinion on this would be great. Um, and it would actually, so maybe we.

Um, post this in post status business and I might post this also in MegaMaker and just say, what do people think about this? I think it would be neat. Um, we might or might not listen to anybody, but it would be interesting to get people’s thinking about it. I agree. Um, and, um, Disclaimer, we should have said this before.

Nobody is allowed to hold us to what they just saw, um, or any of these conversations. Um,

[00:56:25] Cory Miller: but okay. Well, today, to summarize what we’ve talked about, I’m trying to do this more so it’s on the recording. Um, we’ve talked about logo. We worked on website homepage, features and benefits, pricing. Um, and now we got some next steps.

[00:56:51] Corey Maass: So thinking about this stuff, um, tweaking these 10 sites, annual

100 sites, lifetime. What do you say? One year? One year of support? Yeah. Lifetime updates. Um, okay. So yeah, I think we think about, we think about pricing, um, have some conversations with people about that. Think about the words that we’ve put on this website, and if there isn’t a way to. Massage them so that they’re a bit more coherent, less brain dump.

Um, you know, and then also I think I may, I may take a pass of, um, we’ve bookmarked a few sites that we like a design of, so I try to actually bring some design to this so that it’s not just stripes of color. Sounds good.

[00:57:54] Cory Miller: Cool. All right, man. Good progress. Thank you. Yeah. Good work today.

This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.

Gutenberg 16.0 was released today with page management now available inside the Site Editor. This is the first step towards a more unified experience of editing both content and design.

Users can now create new pages and view page details in the sidebar, an experience that is very similar to editing a page in the block editor except it keeps the process inside the flow of design editing.

“This means you can practically build out a website without leaving the Site Editor, which speeds up the site creation process, makes it easier to see what the final result will look like, and reduces the overall cognitive load of switching between editors,” Automattic-sponsored core contributor Nick Diego said.

This update to the Site Editor will be available in the upcoming WordPress 6.3 release, along with the Details block, which has been stabilized in Gutenberg 16.0 and is no longer under the Experimental flag. The implementation was scaled back to be more simple by including the summary as part of the block itself.

The Command Center, created to be an extensible quick search for jumping to other pages or templates inside the editor, has come out of the experimental stage as well in Gutenberg 16.0. This is another major feature coming to core in the next release, and its API is also now public, opening the possibility for developers to create custom commands.

A few other user-facing highlights in this release of the plugin include the following:

Check out the release post for more details on all the enhancements, bug fixes, and tooling, accessibility, and performance updates included in Gutenberg 16.0.

Patchstack is reporting an Insecure Direct Object References (IDOR) vulnerability in WooCommerce Stripe Gateway, the most popular WooCommerce Stripe payment plugin with more than 900,000 active users. It was discovered by Patchstack researcher Rafie Muhammad on April 17, 2023, and patched by WooCommerce on May 30, 2023, in version 7.4.1.

The vulnerability affects versions 7.4.0 and below. Although the patch from WooCommerce has been available for two weeks, more than 55% of the plugin’s user base is running on versions older than 7.4 and it’s not clear how many 7.4.x users are on the latest version.

The WooCommerce Stripe Gateway plugin’s changelog for version 7.4.1 includes two short notes and doesn’t elaborate on the severity of the security update:

Patchstack’s security advisory includes more technical details about underlying vulnerabilities fixed in this update. It is not yet known to have been exploited but store owners are encouraged to update to the latest 7.4.1 version as soon as possible.

[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

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Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how to keep your WordPress website secure.

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If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you, or your idea featured on the show. Head over to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.

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So on the podcast today we have Robert Abela. Robert is the CEO and founder of Melapress, formerly known as WP White Security. They make niche WordPress security and admin plugins. He has over 18 years of experience in the IT and software industries and has written numerous web security articles and white papers.

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We all know that your website is potentially under attack 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year. But why is that? And what can we do to mitigate that risk?

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Robert talks about the security of WordPress Core and how it’s matured over the years. He feels that in most cases, it’s not the Core of WordPress that you need to be concerned about, rather the array of plugins and themes which are added on top. The unique cocktail of software that you add to your site makes it challenging for security products to secure it.

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That being said, Robert is optimistic that there are strategies you can adopt which will make your site less likely to fall prey to malicious actors or bots. Updating plugins on a regular basis, keeping fresh backups and the monitoring of logs, all play a vital role and a straightforward to do.

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Robert is also at pains to point out that this is not a one-click or one time fix. You’re going to need to dedicate time and resources to your website security, and those resources and time will need to be increased as the importance and reach of your website grows. Evolution is the key here. What worked yesterday might not work so effectively tomorrow.

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Another topic we touch on is the automated nature of many of these attacks. Unless you’re hosting a website of some importance, hackers are not trying to break your specific website. They’re deploying automated attacks, trying to infect many websites at the same time. But why do they do this? What are the motivations of these bad actors? Robert explains that it’s not personal, but that does not mean that you can ignore the threat.

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We also chat about the many layers which go into making your website work. Typically, you’ve got a web server, a database, and often much more, and Robert explains why you need to be mindful of all of these when drawing up your security posture.

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Then, of course there’s the users of your site. The people who you’ve allowed to have legitimate access to the WordPress admin. If you’re in a large company with a high churn of employees, you’ll need to make sure that only people who need access have access, and that the permissions that they’re afforded a correct for the work they need to do.

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If you’re curious about how you can secure your WordPress website as it grows this podcast is for you.

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If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WP tavern.com forward slash podcast. Where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

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And so without further delay, I bring you Robert Abela.

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I am joined on the podcast today by Robert Abela. Hello, Robert.

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[00:04:31] Robert Abela: Hello, Nathan. Thank you very much for the invitation. Always nice to talk to you.

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[00:04:34] Nathan Wrigley: Really nice to talk to you. I’ve spoken to you on various other occasions, so I know who you are, but it occurs to me that perhaps the audience don’t. Would you mind just spending a moment giving us a little potted history of yourself? Your relationship with WordPress. We’re going to be talking about security today, so perhaps that would be a good thing to concentrate on as well. So, Robert, over to you.

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[00:04:55] Robert Abela: Sure, I started when I was 20. I started working for a security software company. And through the process of 10, 12 years, I worked through different number of software security companies. So I was working in security.

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And for the last company I was working for, we needed a blog. And back then WordPress was up and coming basically. So yeah, we started using WordPress. Back then was the only viable, very good solution to use. But still, it was in its early days. It was around 2012, 2011, 2012. So of course back then security was a big issue, and there weren’t the vendors that there are today and the solutions that there are today. It definitely got my interest.

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So while I was working with the company, of course we implemented WordPress, but it got my interest. And then I met some people who worked in WordPress. You know, I like the idea of working from home or doing something for yourself. So yeah, it started as a hobby.

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I started writing about WordPress security and reading a bit more, because I was using it for my full-time job. Slowly, slowly it turned into a part-time, from a hobby into a part-timer. And then, yeah, it developed into full-time. And now yeah, I run a company, it’s called WP White Security, which currently by the way, we are re branding to Melapress.

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And yeah, we develop a number of security and management plugins. We started mostly with security plugins. But slowly, slowly we’re developing also a number of plugins, which kind of like, a mix of both. Security and also user slash website management plugins.

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[00:06:12] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you. People who are listening to this podcast, we have a real wide range of an audience. The audience is really broad and deep. And the reason I mention that is because there’ll be a cohort of that audience who understand all the ins and outs of security. And there’ll be a whole load of other people who realize that security online is a thing, but don’t really have any understanding of what we’re talking about.

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So perhaps that would be a good place to lay the groundwork on. Tell us a little bit about the state of WordPress security, if you like. We often hear about a plugin being a fix, or a firewall being a fix, or maybe you sign up for some kind of SaaS app and that’s the fix. But I’m sure that that probably isn’t the fix.

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There’s probably a whole bunch of different security vulnerabilities that we need to be aware of, as well as different ways to fix those. So just paint the landscape of WordPress security, if you like.

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[00:07:04] Robert Abela: Sure. To start off with, we can start with the WordPress Core. Many people think that WordPress is insecure in the Core. But yeah, if you ask me like 10, 12 years ago, I would’ve said yeah. But nowadays, I mean, WordPress in general, the Core, is a really robust, solid product. So WordPress is not an issue.

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But of course WordPress is surrounded, is made up from a huge ecosystem of plugins and themes. And nowadays of course, there are a lot of different solutions. And most issues usually are either user problems, lack of awareness. Or vulnerabilities, issues in plugins. But yeah, in terms of security, like it’s usually a mix of tools. It’s a mix of services, tools, the plugins for example, or services. Or a mix of both. And also best practices.

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You definitely, for example, if you have a bare bone WordPress, you need some plugins and services to implement some things and automate. Like add two factor authentication. Implement a firewall. Automate backups. Enforce some policies, for example. That’s what the software can give you, but you also need to follow some best practices. You know like, let’s say have some logs, an activity log. You need to keep an eye on those logs.

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You need to make sure that the software is always up to date. And by the way when we talk software, many people look just at WordPress, but you need to also keep up to date your own laptop software up to date. Any software you use through the process, your laptop, servers, whatever, everything needs to be kept up to date, not just WordPress.

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And of course one thing to keep in mind is, let’s say you harden WordPress the first time. Security is not a one stop fix. It’s not a one time fix. Because it’s secure maybe today. But as we all know, as businesses grow, as requirements change your website needs to adapt to these changes. So you might need to add new technology. Or you need to install any new plugin, or change something, or change the configuration on the server.

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So with every change, or with any new vulnerability that is discovered, make sure that you adapt your security strategy basically. What we call like the four pillars of security. The idea is of course first to secure, harden WordPress. Then of course monitor. Keep an eye of course, on what’s happening. Test, just keep on testing whenever you add something new. Is the firewalls still working as it’s supposed to be? Things like that. Based on findings, you need to improve.

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So as the website evolves, as your business evolves or your, whatever you are doing with the website, the scope of the website, and the requirements of your team. Security needs to evolve as well. Okay, install a plugin. You maybe use some services as well, a good mix. You have some best practice in place, but yeah, that’s just as of today.

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[00:09:20] Nathan Wrigley: It’s a never-ending enterprise really, isn’t it? You are constantly going to have to be tweaking this and examining this because the nature of the software, which WordPress itself sits on top of, the OS if you like, that’s always changing. WordPress itself is changing. The configuration of plugins, themes, and so on that you’ve got is changing. And also the nature of the attacks, which are coming your way is changing. The long and the short of it is the whole thing is changing. And so I guess you need to adapt with that.

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I just want to switch to the attackers themselves, because I always find this subject curious. What is in it for them? So these days we constantly see about the latest hack. You know, if you read tech journalism, you are seeing about SaaS platforms going down. You see about ransomware attacks. You see about people’s Bitcoin wallets being stolen and there’s just seemingly every which way that people can because mayhem, they do. But in a WordPress website, why are they doing it? What are the reasons that they’re doing it for? I guess we’ve come a long way from just so that they can deface your website.

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[00:10:27] Robert Abela: I’ve been listening to this podcast. It’s about the Lazarus group. I don’t know if you’ve heard about it. It’s from the BBC. Typically on the scale of attacks the motivation is mostly financial motivation. And okay, of course, like you don’t have any source of money or something on your website. This might not be the case. But these type of large scale attacks, they need a number of bots. Basically hacked websites, hacked servers, which they can use to ramp up their attacks basically.

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Or of course, if you want to hide, if you’re hacking a website, you’re going to hide yourself. You don’t want to hack it from your own computer. So you hack a website, you hack another server and use that kind of like a stepping stone. So as long as you have an online presence, whether it’s WordPress or not you are a target.

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That online presence, if it’s WordPress or not, any website or any device that is connected to the internet. It has resources. It has CPU power. It has memory. It has internet connectivity, bandwidth. So yeah, that’s a resource. Now, if it’s being hacked either to hack your website and deface website, or as a stepping stone to hack something else. But yeah, you are always target. So even if you have nothing of interest, even if you’re not doing, I don’t know, commerce to your website, and if you don’t have sensitive data, you are still a target.

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[00:11:31] Nathan Wrigley: If you have an e-commerce website, obviously there’s a real motivation there. You know, possibly break into your website and figure out what kind of orders have been replaced and cause mayhem there. And maybe try some sort of social engineering attack to steal people’s credit card details.

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But interestingly there you also just said just the resources itself, that’s enough. The fact that you have paid for a piece of a computer somewhere, a portion of a computer, the CPU and what have you. That’s enough for people because presumably they want to put their own software on the computer that you’ve paid for, and use it to do nefarious things.

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Now, that button means spraying out emails to people who don’t wish to receive them. But what other things are they up to? So if they’re not defacing things, but they are wishing to take your machine over. What kind of things can they do from there, once they’ve got that bridge established?

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[00:12:23] Robert Abela: They can do quite a lot. For example, there was this, going back to the Lazarus group, one of the smart hacks they’ve done. They targeted some bankers, some people who work in banks basically with a phishing attack.

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Quite frankly, it was the good old trick, like hi, you have won an award. Click here to win via email. Uh, someone from all those thousands of employees in a bank, someone clicked. And malware was injected there. And that led to allowing them to control some ATMs and stuff like that.

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But to get to there, when they managed to inject the malware in ATMs and of course control that, they wouldn’t control that malware, or launch the attack from their own servers. Because otherwise it’s very easy to track them back. They need some sort of proxies or stuff like that. So basically they’re going to use your website, which is hosted on a server. The resources of your website, of the server where your website is hosted to launch this attack.

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And it’s not the first time actually, they have multiple proxies. So from their machine, they send commands to your hacked website, which sends commands to another hacked website, as in hacked server, and then it sends the comment to the actual victim. The resources you’re paying for, the server you’re paying for, is being used purely for them to hide themselves basically as a proxy.

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[00:13:29] Nathan Wrigley: I guess one of the things that I hear sometimes is that people believe that because their website is of a small size, or may not be interesting, in inverted commas, that they therefore assume that the hackers won’t find it interesting. In other words, it goes a little bit like this, but my website’s small. You know, it’s about something really niche. Why would the hackers want to come after me?

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And I think what you’ve just said speaks to that. It’s irrelevant. It’s not really a hacker. There isn’t an individual doing this. It’s an individual at some point who wrote a script, which then got downloaded and redistributed a thousand times over the internet and deployed by a thousand different people.

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So you don’t need to look for an incentive. The incentive is there all the time. It’s not a person deliberately coming after you for a personal vendetta, usually. This is just people trying to gain some sort of bridgehead in the internet, on the internet, on servers somewhere so that they can because mayhem in ways that you cannot even imagine.

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[00:14:31] Robert Abela: Yeah. In fact, even when you say, okay, I don’t know, I have a website about a hobby, some old museum somewhere, whatever. We don’t accept payments. Who would be interested in our website? From the outside it doesn’t apply, because when actually hackers are trying to find, or malicious users are trying to find vulnerable websites. They’re not just browsing one by one.

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They have automated tools. They scan whole subnets, whole networks, you know. And they don’t even know or care whose website it is, or how it looks most of the time. Okay, this website has a vulnerability, we can exploit it. So of course we can run commands, you know, on the operating system or depending of course, what they want to do.

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But yeah, as long as they get access. So yeah, they don’t just target your website, just scan whole subnets. So, your website happens to be one of them. So yeah, if you have a vulnerability, if you have, I don’t know, an outdated plugin for example that has an issue, and you’ve never updated it and the vulnerability is there and they can exploit it, then yeah. They don’t care whose website it is or how it looks, whatever. It just, it flags okay, this website, they get a flag, this website is vulnerable. Exploit the attack, take over, and that’s it.

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[00:15:29] Nathan Wrigley: And I guess the other important part in that, is that this is not a personal thing. It’s very, very, very unlikely, unless you are some kind of nation state actor, that there’s going to be people sitting at computers designing software deliberately to get into your machine. This is just people spraying out bots all over the place, looking for vulnerabilities and then stumbling across them randomly, and then deploying the things that they’ve got to exploit, those vulnerabilities. So it’s not personal, and it’s very unlikely at the other end of that is a real human being. It’s just scripts written, who knows where and who knows when.

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[00:16:05] Robert Abela: Exactly. No, in fact, I’m sure like the bigger companies, you know, like Facebook. I’m sure they have a good share of targeted attacks because when you’re so big, I mean they definitely have some haters. But no, let’s say the normal websites, the normal hobbyist websites, whatever, which is quite funny because usually the hobbyist websites are the ones that people think, oh, who will attack my website? But yeah, it’s just like another number.

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So, it’s not personal, it’s nothing personal. And as you said, most probably not, most probably, like most of the things are automated. So yeah, there’s not one person doing something to you, it’s just the whole process and it’s all automated. So yeah, nothing personal indeed, yeah.

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[00:16:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, which doesn’t make it any better unfortunately, even though it’s not personal. So let’s talk about the tech stack which our WordPress websites are sitting upon. Because again caveat emptor. I know that a lot of the people who are listening to this who are technical, this will be very obvious what we’re going to cover.

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But there’s a proportion of the people who are listening to this who may very well not know that there is layers and layers of things making their website possible, and those themselves are vulnerable. Even though you may never interact with them. You may only go to your WordPress, log in over there. Type whatever it is that you need to type, save, publish, and then log out again.

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That might be your only interaction with WordPress. But WordPress doesn’t sit in isolation. So what typically is the stack that it’s sitting on, and do we need to be concerned about all of the stack, or are there any pieces which are more concerning than others?

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[00:17:30] Robert Abela: It really depends. First of all, your own computer. So if you’re accessing your WordPress website, even just to update. Your own computer needs to be up to date. So that’s part of the tech stack. In regards to the website, it depends like if you have managed hosting where you have access just to this website, the bulk of the work, you still have to take care of some things and updating your software, but the bulk of the work is done by the web host.

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However, if you have a dedicated server or just any hosting where you just have to install WordPress, then of course because a typical, let’s say you have a dedicated server, you host everything yourself. The typical text tech stack, you have the web server, typically a Unix, Linux operating system. Then you have the web server, Apache, Nginx or something similar. You have also PHP, sort of like a framework, the language that WordPress is written in. You have MySQL the database server, that’s the most basic.

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So you have PHP, Apache, the web server itself of course, and the database. And then of course it depends, like if you need to send emails, you’re going to have the SMTP server and stuff like that. So when it comes to securing that, let’s say that one. To be honest when you look at the tech stack software nowadays, it’s quite easy to keep secure as in like, as long as you configure it properly and securely. Like you read maybe a bit, I don’t know about the, the best practices, and of course keeping it up to date. Software in general is not a big issue.

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The more time passes, I think the last few years we’re seeing a small shift, because usually it was always, okay exploiting this issue or exploiting this issue. But most of the cases vendors are quite responsive on their issues. The problem in the tech stack, it’s not actually any component in the tech stack, it’s the users. As in like, it could be even, you’re like, if you forgot to update a plugin or if you received a spam email or a phishing attack and you clicked on some untrusted link. Or downloaded something which you, you don’t know what it is, you know?

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There are so many tools nowadays when it comes to keeping your software up to date. There are so many resources. Like, listen, let’s read the best practices on how to set up a secure Apache server. And there are also, of course, services. You can pay people, you can pay professionals who can do these things for you.

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So the actual tech stack is, I wouldn’t say easy, because you need knowledge to do it, but yeah, it’s relatively easy if you know what you’re doing. You have the tools, you have everything you need to keep it secure.

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The problem nowadays more weak passwords, phishing attacks, and stuff like that. Using public WiFi, using unpatched computers. Using public computers to access some things. Unfortunately the user has become the weakest link in the whole chain, you know?

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[00:19:53] Nathan Wrigley: So you’ve got to really be careful what it is that you’re doing. What machine you’re using. Where you’re using that machine, and so on. I’m just wondering if there is, in your mind, any system which you would regard as pretty safe. I’m going to say a hundred percent safe, and then immediately withdraw that because I think we all know that’s not possible.

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But is there a position you can get into where you can have done enough. You’ve raised your guard up so much that you can relax? Or is this more a story of constant vigilance, constant worry, constantly assuming the worst is going to happen tomorrow? Or is it possible to employ the services of a particular, say, SaaS company, or a professional who might look over things for you?

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And be entirely happy that, okay, that’s now handled by somebody else. I’m entirely safe. Now I know that a hundred percent is off the table, but can we be confident that our sites are mostly safe if we take the right precautions?

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[00:20:51] Robert Abela: Yes. I think nowadays with all the tools that there are and all the services even the web hosts themselves, they really up to their game the last few years, especially the managed ones. As you said, a hundred percent is, you’re never guaranteed. But yeah, there are so many tools. If you inform yourself and if you implement some best practices, you websites are relatively safe.

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I mean, you should always take precaution steps. Like for example, backups, they’re very important. So if something happens, you can restore. Test those backups, of course, because many people miss that part. They take backup, like, have you ever tried to restore it? No.

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So it is very important. because sometimes of course, it’s software as well and it can break. So the restore might not work or something has been corrupted. So that is extremely important. But yeah, from the tech stack point of view it’s pretty much covered. There are a lot of options nowadays.

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Even like with a simple managed WordPress hosting, and installing a plugin or two, you’re pretty much covered, let’s say. What’s important is the best practice and the concept that listen, security is not one stop shop. I don’t think we should, one should be really paranoid to be honest. because as I said, we’re in a good position.

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But it’s very important for people to keep in mind, especially as the team grows. Because if you’re on your own one thing, it’s relatively easy because you know, you have exactly full control between you and the web host. You have roughly full control of, and you know what’s happening. But as the team starts growing, especially nowadays, in the WordPress ecosystem it’s very common to have remote businesses.

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You don’t have full control of your employees, as in like, not the employees themselves, but as in their machines and where they use them and how they use them. So I think what’s very important is of course to raise awareness, train them, train your team. Make them aware that, listen, use your laptop here, or have some sort of guidelines and make sure you can use as many possible tools, documentation, and training to make sure at least you can take care of that part.

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Which is, in my opinion, is the hardest part to secure. Because of course, you don’t have full control of users, users machines. That is the most important, because as I said the tech stack, like of course things can happen, but as long as you keep software up to date and stuff like that, unless there’s a zero day exploit, you really unlucky whatever. Okay, it’s never a hundred percent secure, but you are very near that number, you know.

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[00:22:57] Nathan Wrigley: In terms of the tech stack and the maturity of it, do we often get really innovative and unique vulnerabilities in the tech stack that builds a WordPress website? Let’s say you’ve got, I don’t know, a server, Apache Nginx or whatever it may be.. Do we ever find a new, novel attack? Does that typically come across, I don’t know, once a year, once a decade, something like that?

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So can we lower our guards a little bit or do we find, do you find, you’re the expert? Do you find that there are novel things that are uncovered by security researchers, which have been, maybe they’ve been exploited for a year or more, but kept very much under the radar, kept quiet. Is the landscape changing? Are there new and novel attacks happening all the time?

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[00:23:40] Robert Abela: Not really, in terms of vulnerabilities. We’re still playing with the same, for example, SQL injection was discovered in the late nineties. The first decade of 2000 we started discovering other vulnerabilities, like cross size scripting, cross request forgery, you know, and the other ones.

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When you discover a new type of vulnerability that I would say, of course, that is very innovative. But for the last 10 years, even if you look, there are some websites which keep kind of like an aggregate of the vulnerabilities that are found in plugins. It’s always the same, especially cross site scripting is very common.

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By cross site scripting, it’s also very important to like every different types of cross site scripting, different type of vulnerabilities, have different type of severity. So if a plugin has a cross site scripting vulnerability, it’s not necessarily that one should panic, because I’m not saying, okay, just relax, take it easy.

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But listen, some of the vulnerabilities, for example, are very, very hard or can be exploited in a very particular edge case. So it is very important to keep things up to date. But yeah, in terms of innovation, no. In terms of new vulnerabilities, not much.

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What is really changing? I think the way malicious users are getting much smarter in the way they craft their attack. They’re still using the same exploits and same, same issues. Exploiting old software, old vulnerabilites. The good old SQL injection, cross my scripting. But the way they are approaching it, the way they are building, drafting their tech, it’s much more complex.

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There’s a lot of intelligence behind it, like how they use a number of different vulnerabilities to build an attack. First you send an email. If the victim gets the bait basically, if they click something or whatever. And then if they click, for example, install some malware on the computer, which allows you then, for example, I don’t know, some sort of key logger, and then you see what they’re doing.

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Maybe they are connecting to a website and they’re uploading something. So we’ve seen much more complex type of attacks where people are stringing a number of vulnerabilities together to successfully attack some particular target.

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But in terms of innovation of new type of vulnerabilities, like new ways of exploiting software, we haven’t seen much, no. For the last 10 years, it’s been pretty much same old, same old kind of thing.

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[00:25:42] Nathan Wrigley: Now I’m going to throw a spanner in the works here and ask you about AI. It’s all the rage at the moment for creating content and probably people in the WordPress space know that people have been able to create plugins, and create all sorts of things around the WordPress space.

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Lots and lots of endeavors in WordPress using AI, and I’m wondering if this has started to become a trend amongst the hackers as well? Whether they’re using this technology to refine their processes? Possibly to go and look at the source code of things like WordPress or Linux kernel, or whatever it may be. Speeding up the process, finding new novel things. My question really boils down to, does AI and internet security, is that a point of concern, do you think, in the near future?

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[00:26:31] Robert Abela: I think right now, not really. It’s still too early, but I think AI is a big changer in general, in every industry, every vertical of the internet industry. Having said that, AI is not a human, so it’s not necessarily coming up with something innovative.

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It’s still, at the end of the day, it still has some sort of database where it gets information from. The difference is that nowadays, instead of using Google and browsing through search results, trying to find exactly what you need, okay, this website, no, it’s not here to click on the other one, go on that page.

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Rather than going through that process of course, with AI, we’ve really accelerated that. We’ve really automated that. So nowadays, like with AI, especially if you know how to ask what you need, you’re going to get the answer much quicker. So things that usually would take you, let’s assume a malicious user wants to hack something, a target.

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It used to take them days or weeks maybe to craft something and to think of something original and learn about something. Because of course you have to search for everything and read a bit more, and try this and try that. With AI, of course you’re accelerating this process. And by accelerating that process you’re achieving much quicker results.

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And typically also, true AI, not because AI cannot come up with something new, because it’s always getting information from what there is. But I’m pretty sure it can, because of this fast process, I’m pretty sure it will lead slowly, slowly to also new innovations. In every aspect, content writing, security, security both in terms of attack and defense and every aspect of the internet.

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[00:27:55] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that’s an interesting point. I hadn’t really thought about that. I was thinking about that from the attacker side. But of course, the defense side also has the same tools to deploy, and I’m imagining that if you’re the vendor of a, of a security product, whether that’s a firewall or a plugin or whatever, you’re also going to be deploying the same tools to try and mitigate what the adversaries are doing.

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[00:28:17] Robert Abela: The thing is that luckily both the attacker and the, let’s say the white hat vendor have access to the same tools. So yeah, if you use them wisely. Also, this thing is always a bit of a cat and mouse game. The malicious users do something, the vendors up their game, then they do something, then they up their game and stuff like that.

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[00:28:36] Nathan Wrigley: I want to just turn our attention to a typical WordPress user. Perhaps somebody who really doesn’t know a great deal about this. They’re listening to this podcast because they’re curious about WordPress. They’ve got a site which they run, it’s their own. Maybe they’ve got a couple of sites.

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They’re beginning that journey on creating their own freelance business or something like that. Do you have any guidance as to how often things ought to be done? Is this really a process of you really should be logging in every day, checking for updates, and while you’re at it, why not just switch automatic updates for Core and all the plugins that you’ve got on?

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Or is this more of a look, once a week is fine. I’m sure there won’t be a hard and fast rule, but people who are just beginning their journey with WordPress, they probably do need concrete examples of how they should best handle this.

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[00:29:18] Robert Abela: It really depends on the scale of the business and how much traffic your website is getting. And also the number of people working on the website. Because one person or two people from the same room, it’s totally different than being even two people from different locations. And how much the team is security savvy, not necessarily technical, but at least have some basic understanding.

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But yeah, in general let’s say a typical startup where you are switching between kind of like a transitioning from a hobby to a part-time. I think as long as you take care of the obvious, install some plugins, add 2FA, add some logs, add a firewall, make sure that you have backups. Work with a solid web host.

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As long as you take care of the basics, you should be pretty much covered, and yes, like everyone else, for example checking Google Analytics, or any type of analytics software for that matter. Yeah like, people are doing it for SEO, but it also helps keeping an eye.

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Maybe there’s a spike of traffic coming from some unusual location. All these things can lead to something. Check your website every day. You know, like it’s very important, for example especially if you have a very small number of users. You are two or three users. I mean like once a week, maybe you should have some sort of checklist, you know, check how many users are on your website. Run some file integrated scans. You know, like some basic stuff.

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Once a week is more than enough at that level. So yes. But what’s important, I think at that stage, especially if you are growing, it’s very important to draft policies and follow security best practices when the team is still very small.

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Why? Because if you are not organized when the team is very small, it’ll be much harder, and you’ll have much bigger problems when the team is very big. It’ll be much harder to implement a change. Like, I don’t know, like we used to do something one way, and after one year, the team now is a hundred people.

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It’s much more difficult to convince those hundred people, listen, we’re going to change this and we’re going to start doing it this way. And yeah, this can of course, irritate people because people tend to resist change, especially if it affects their productivity or if it’s too complicated.

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So I think what matters is, especially as you’re starting, set up some policy, some guidelines, some best practice for yourself, have some sort of checklist. Yes, once a week or so. You can also do it almost once a month, but again, play it safe. Why not spend an hour every week, have a checklist, check how many users are there on your website, check some logs, check the traffic on the website, you know, check the list of plugins. check the files.

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Especially, a file integrity monitor can tell you lot of things because if there is a file, typically when a website is hacked, there is a file that has changed. A file has been deleted, or a file has been modified, even an actual legitimate file, it has been modified. So yeah, that can tell you a lot.

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Luckily nowadays, of course most of these systems, configure email alerts, you can configure some SMS and stuff like that. So of course you’re automating much and much more. But it’s still good to take a look. And also it’s very important because we, for example, we develop an activity log plugin, and some people are, okay, what should I look for in the logs? It’s very difficult to answer that question, because it truly depends on your business. Because, it’s very important for website owners to understand what’s running on their website and how it’s being used, and only then you can make informed decisions.

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Okay, is this log, not just in WordPress, even the web server logs, even in analytics. Is this traffic normal or not? Because, if for example you are based in the UK and typically you get all the traffic from Germany. So by seeing a spike from traffic in Germany, that’s normal to you. But for someone who’s based in the UK but only has UK traffic, a spike of traffic in Germany is a problem for them.

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So first what’s very important is to understand your website, have some basic checklists. The most basic stuff, once a week or so. Keep an eye on these things. Traffic, and logs usually, and also log into the website. Why not? You know, just go to the plugins page. Are these all the plugins that I installed? Are these all users that I had? That’s a really good step.

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By setting those best practices and those checks once a week, as the team grows it’ll be easier to maybe add something new because of course the team is growing, so you need to add more policies or you need to add, secure something else, you know? So, yeah, that’s very important. It’s very important to keep an eye on things, just check how things are running.

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But of course with managed web hosting, especially for WordPress things, most of these things are almost covered for you. Many web hosts have different packages. Many web hosts nowadays they have their own kind of like internal monitoring systems as well. We’ve noticed you have this plugin, which is outdated, or we’ve noticed this. So at least there is a lot going on for you already.

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And that’s why I said even earlier, it’s good of course, to be aware, and to be conscious that, listen, these things can happen, but we don’t need to be stressed. If you’ve done your homework, if you do your own homework, and you follow best practices, you choose a good web host and stuff like that, then you are in a good place.

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[00:33:53] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess it’s a good point to mention that the WordPress ecosystem, given its enormous size and reach in the website creation space, you’re in a pretty good spot because there has been so much effort poured into, not only making WordPress secure, but making the update system for plugins and themes trivially easy to switch on.

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And I’m just wondering about that one actually. I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on automatic updating. Personally I’ve, in most of the places where it’s possible, I have switched that on, and have had no negative consequences. You know, none of the plugin updates have destroyed anything in ways which would make me want to switch that off.

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But that is an option which I know that a lot of people don’t make use of, and I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that. So in the WordPress admin, it’s possible to automate the whole process of updating. It’ll just do it on a regular cycle if it knows there’s a WordPress plugin update, it’ll just do it for you and hopefully everything will work out.

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And obviously now we’ve got a safe mode built into WordPress not that long ago. So let’s just talk about that quickly. What do you think about automatically updating everything when possible?

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[00:34:59] Robert Abela: Speaking about ourselves, we have automatic updates on minor version updates. Because we have like 4.0.1, 4.0.2. We allow that. because yeah, most cases, usually these updates are just small bug fixes here and there. The chances of something breaking, especially with a plugin update is with major version changes, because of course the vendor has implemented a new feature or drastically changed a feature and stuff like that. Of course, for the better.

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But, especially for vendors, it’s very difficult. Let’s say you have a plugin, it’s installed onto a hundred thousand websites. It is very difficult to simulate all those a hundred thousand websites, and simulate upgrades. So of course we try our best to do as much as we can to test as much as we can in different scenarios. But it’s impossible.

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So in terms of auto updates, for us and which is something I recommend, I would definitely enable them for minor version updates. In regards to major version upgrades, nowadays again, most hosting providers have the staging websites. Just run it on the staging website, literally, it only takes 10 minutes.

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Run it on the staging website. Check the area on the website that is affected by that plugin. I don’t know if it’s an SEO plugin, for example, you check that the headers are still loading or the metadata is still loading. Or if, I don’t know, it’s the tables plugin, check that tables are still loading properly.

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And yeah, if it works, update the live site as soon as possible. WordPress itself of course, as soon as you log into the dashboard, and you go to the plugins pages, you have that even, you don’t need to go to the plugins pages. You have that icon that you have updates. So it’s very difficult to miss updates. So that’s great.

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But even if, let’s say you’re not logging into your website on a daily basis, there are many services, every vendor usually they have their own change log, you can subscribe to their newsletter. So yeah, whenever there’s an update, you’ll get an email or some sort of notification.

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So it’s very important if you’re not logging into your website every day to see when there are updates. At least subscribe to the vendor’s newsletter or builds updates or something. So at least you get an email that, listen, we’ve released an update, especially if it’s a major update. If you have, of course, the automatic updates for minor version upgrades, especially if you have a big website.

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Like an e-commerce website, you can have a good number of plugins, tons of plugins. At least you don’t have to do almost daily updates. For the major version updates, if it’s a relatively small website, you might get on with enabling, automatic updates on that as well. But yeah, do it on a staging website. It literally takes a few minutes. Just update the plugin on the staging, run a quick test, 15 minutes maximum and turn on updates on the live website. So yeah, definitely.

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[00:37:16] Nathan Wrigley: It’s also the kind of thing that once you’ve done it a few times, it becomes kind of muscle memory and you can do that staging to updating plugin to, you can do that very trivially quickly and get on with your day if that’s not the main part of your business.

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Just one last question. You talked earlier about members of staff and what have you. I’m just wondering if you’ve got any guidance, again possibly for the more inexperienced WordPress user, about the kind of roles that you might assign to people in WordPress. Obviously, if you are giving everybody the administrator role, you may well find yourself in a bit of trouble.

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And also about the nature of cleansing out the users that you’ve got on your WordPress website on a regular basis. So, you know, if you’ve got a big team and you’re constantly churning through staff, that’s probably something you want to be thinking about as well, because that’s an attack that you really can’t avoid if you don’t make the effort. You know, if you’ve given somebody an administrator account and they’ve got bonafide access to get into the website and you don’t revoke it. Or you’ve given them too many permissions and they then get fired and you know, they fall out with you, there could be problems afoot there.

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[00:38:19] Robert Abela: Yeah, indeed. Definitely one shouldn’t give admin roles, assign the admin role to everyone. In fact, as a best practice, I would say have an admin account, really difficult to use and that should only be used by you and only as back up. Because even you as a website administrator, you don’t need admin access whenever you log into the website.

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If most of your work is still updating some posts, or maybe changing something from the theme. So no, admin roles shouldn’t be used that often. WordPress has a number of built-in roles. It depends again on the nature of the website, what you’re doing with it. For some people, those roles work.

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But yeah, the fact that there’s this technology of roles is, it’s already good, because there are also a number of plugins which you can use to create different types of roles to assign multiple roles to users. And most plugins nowadays they either create their own roles on your WordPress website, or they have different types of functions where you can, okay, like, literally some plugins, you can say, okay, I created a new role for them and I want these people to do only these type of things on this plugin.

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So the role control, and what people can do and cannot do, especially when you use a third party plugin to create your own custom roles and to assign different privileges, is very granular. Definitely no admin access for no people, quite frankly. But yeah, the rest, I definitely recommend using some sort of custom role editor so you can create your own custom roles as well if the default ones don’t work for you.

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We always talk about the principle of least privilege. I was a systems engineer when I used to work for their companies and, the easiest way, I was like, yeah, give them admin access because it’ll work for sure. Of course. Unfortunately, it’s a very common practice. But no, the reality is you should, yes, start with the least possible.

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And if they don’t work, see what else they need. Okay. What else do you need? I need to access this page from this plugin, and check. Contact the vendor from the plugin. Listen, do you have specific privileges for this? Or do we need this? Do we need this? And to build slowly. Yes, I understand that it hinders the productivity, kind of slows down things. But it only slows those things for a day or two. Or give them maybe a bit more access for a day or two until you check with the vendor and then reverse that access.

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So always give the least possible. It’s also a question like of user accountability. Some compliance bodies actually have regulations about this. If someone shouldn’t be seeing certain customer data, regardless if you trust them or not, they shouldn’t be seeing it. Why are you giving them access kind of thing.

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So, it’s very important to live by the kind of like principle of lease privilege when it comes to users. Give them the lease possible. Even for them, especially if they’re not tech savvy. This doesn’t have to do with someone being malicious, or even if they make a mistake, at least they make a mistake within their environment, their privileges. Not a bigger mistake.

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Roles definitely should be used. And yeah, there are a lot of plugins. We’re lucky because there are a lot of plugins which allow you to create your own custom roles, assign different privileges for roles and stuff like that. Definitely roles are definitely things that should be used.

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[00:41:05] Nathan Wrigley: This is a topic that we could probably talk about for days.

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[00:41:08] Robert Abela: Yeah, roles on their own, yes.

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[00:41:10] Nathan Wrigley: And more broadly about WordPress in general. You know, should we keep the REST API on, and are there a bunch of things that you would switch off by default. But unfortunately we’re kind of running out of time, so I’m going to leave those questions possibly for another episode.

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Or another way of getting the answer might be, if people want to contact you, Robert, directly. Where can you be found? Do you hang out on social? Is there an email address that you prefer to mention? Where can we best find you, Robert?

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[00:41:37] Robert Abela: Yes. Uh, our website is wpwhitesecurity.com but as I said, we are rebranding. So we are announcing the new name at WordCamp Europe. The new website will be melapress.com. m e l a press.com. So yeah, my email is very simple, robert at melapress.com or at WP White Security. I’m also on Twitter and stuff like that. But yeah, I think email is definitely one of the most efficient.

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[00:41:58] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much, Robert. I really appreciate joining us on the podcast today. Thank you.

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[00:42:02] Robert Abela: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Robert is the CEO and founder of MelaPress, formerly known as WP White Security. They make niche WordPress security and admin plugins. He has over 18 years experience in the IT and software industries, and has written numerous web security articles and white papers.

We all know that your website is potentially under attack 24 hours a day, 365 days of this year, but why is that, and what can we do to mitigate that risk?

That being said, Robert is optimistic that there are strategies you can adopt which will make your site less likely to fall prey to malicious actors or bots. Updating plugins on a regular basis, keeping fresh backups, and the monitoring of logs all play a vital role and are straightforward to do.

Robert is also at pains to point out that this is not a one click, or one time fix. You’re going to need to dedicate time and resources to your website security, and those resources and time will need to be increased as the importance and reach of your site grows. Evolution is the key here. What worked yesterday might not work so effectively tomorrow.

Another topic which we touch on is the automated nature of many of these attacks. Unless you are hosting a website of some importance, hackers are not trying to break your specific website. They’re deploying automated attacks, trying to infect many websites at the same time. But why do they do this, what are the motivations of these bad actors? Robert explains that it’s not personal, but that does not mean that you can ignore the threat.

We also chat about the many layers which go into making your website work. Typically you’ve got a web server, a database, and often much more, and Robert explains why you need to be mindful of all these when drawing up your security posture.

Then of course there’s the users of your site, the people who you’ve allowed to have legitimate access to the WordPress admin. If you’re in a large company with a high churn of employees then you’ll need to make sure that only people who need access have access, and that the permissions that they’re afforded are correct for the work they need to do.

If you’re curious about how you can secure your WordPress website as it grows, this podcast is for you.

Useful links.

WordPress Accessibility Day, an independent 24-hour virtual conference, will return in 2023 – this time under an official non-profit status.

The first edition of the event was hosted in 2020 by the WordPress core Accessibility Team. They wanted to manage it independently of the WordPress Foundation in order to reserve the option to do things like pay speakers for their time and expertise. The most recent 2022 event ran its finances through WP Accessibility Day Board President Amber Hinds’ company, Equalize Digital, to expedite the process of getting started.

The success of last year’s event, which drew 1,604 attendees from 52 countries, thanks to 28 sponsors and a 32-person volunteer crew, inspired organizers to keep pushing to make the organization a nonprofit.

Through a fiscal sponsorship partnership with Knowbility, an Austin-based digital accessibility advocate and services provider, WP Accessibility Day has secured 501(c)(3) nonprofit status.

“When I helped found this event in 2020, I already knew that our biggest challenge would be ensuring that the event wasn’t dependent on a single person to survive,” WP Accessibility Day Board Secretary Joe Dolson said. “Setting up as a non-profit and partnering with a larger organization helps us reach our goal of creating an event with a life of its own. Knowbility’s dedication to accessibility education makes them a great match for our mission.”

This arrangement makes sponsorships and donations to the WP Accessibility Day event tax-deductible in the United States. Past sponsors include Cloudways, Gravity Forms, WP Engine, Yoast, GoDaddy Pro, Weglot, among other WordPress companies.

The next WP Accessibility Day event is scheduled for September 27-28, 2023, and will feature a single-track that runs for 24 hours. It will also include live captioning and sign language interpreters. Organizers plan to publish the sessions following the event with transcripts and updated captions.

Speaker and sponsor applications are already open, and speakers will be compensated with a $300 stipend per session. The deadline to submit an application as a speaker has been extended to June 18, 2023. Attendance is free via livestream.

During the 2022 State of the Word, Matt Mullenweg announced a plan to add new “Community” and “Commercial” taxonomies for the theme and plugin directories that would help users more quickly ascertain the purpose of the extensions they are considering. Shortly after the announcement, instructions were published for theme and plugin authors to opt into the new taxonomies.

The new filters are now enabled on both the theme and plugin directories, giving users the ability to quickly sort between free community extensions and those with commercial upgrades. Anything with a “pro version” should be designated as Commercial. These usually come with some upsells for more features than are offered in the free version. So far, the number of themes identified as commercial vastly exceed the number of community themes.

In the Plugin directory, extensions designated as free are nearly equal those designated as commercial. Many of the most widely used plugins have already been identified as commercial, including Yoast SEO, Jetpack, Akismet, Elementor, WooCommerce, All-in-One WP Migration, and more. Examples of community plugins include the WordPress Importer, Classic Editor, Classic Widgets, Gutenberg, Performance Lab, and Debug Bar.

In both directories it appears only a small percentage of authors have designated their extensions using the commercial or community taxonomies. At this time, use of the taxonomies is not required. This gave rise to some questions in the comments of the announcement.

“Would a better classification system would be to just have either no label for the majority, and then something closer to ‘includes paid upgrades’ that just implies they also offer additional services on top of their free (and often fully functional) version?” WordPress developer Kevin Batdorf said.

“All plugins are open source regardless of whether they sell something, and that doesn’t make those developers any less passionate about open-source. Nor does it imply non-commercial plugins have any less features, or that the level of dedication to support is any less dedicated.”

Batdorf also asked if use of the taxonomies would be a requirement in the future, because, at the moment, their low usage could give some plugins an advantage under these new classifications.

“Should it also be a requirement?” he said. “Otherwise this also seems like something to be gamed for visibility. Do Community or Commercial (or neither) plugins show higher install growth? I guarantee you people are tracking this already.”

WordPress’ Meta team is seeking feedback on the current implementation. Automattic-sponsored contributor Steve Dufresne said “work is continuously underway to improve the browsing experience and refine the visual aspects of the Theme and Plugin Directory as part of the site redesign.” The new filters will be incorporated into the upcoming redesign changes that have been slowly rolling out across WordPress.org.

These filters will also be making their way into the admin theme and plugin browsers, so users can access them from wherever they search for extensions. In the meantime, users and theme and plugin developers can leave feedback via Meta Trac on the specific tickets outlined in the announcement, as the team continues to iterate on the project.

Q&A segments at a live event are a valuable point of connection where attendees have the opportunity to gain the undivided attention of the speaker or panelist and get answers to important questions. Inevitably, people who abuse the format can lower the quality of the experience for everyone. A Twitter thread addressing this chronic problem is gaining momentum today following the conclusion of WordCamp Europe 2023.

“One problem is that they often add very little value – although they’re supposed to achieve the opposite,” WordPress Core Committer Felix Arntz said. “Unfortunately, those who ‘ask’ are often telling stories, promoting themselves or their business, [or] mansplaining the speaker.

“Sometimes they’re not even asking any question at the end which is ridiculous. If that is you, you may not even notice it, but you are seriously wasting people’s time, potentially harming the speaker, and preventing folks from actually learning something.”

Arntz suggested that those asking questions longer than a minute should forego the Q&A time and ask the speaker informally at a later opportunity if it is relevant.

“Just to clarify, while some of the issues apply especially to sessions with more exposure, like a Matt Q&A, they all also apply to any other session,” he said.

“While these problems mostly occur due to individual folks in the audience, I think the WordCamp organization needs to take action to improve the situation as it’s been happening for years.”

Arntz proposed a number of actionable ideas, including submitting questions to a central platform where they can be upvoted by community members, discarding lengthy questions, and providing mandatory training or documentation for emcees on how to handle problematic Q&A situations. He also noted that having questions in writing can assist non-native English speakers in understanding other non-native speakers.

Arntz also contends that Q&A should be optional, depending on the speaker’s preference. This may also have the added effect of creating a more inclusive environment for speakers.

“Particularly for new speakers, it can cause lots of distress or anxiety, especially because, as mentioned before, it very often isn’t questions but any of the aforementioned problems,” he said.

“All of this can be another blocker for folks from underrepresented groups to even apply to speak, which came up in the session on women & non-binary folx of WordPress.

“Making Q&A optional is a great and simple way to at least improve the latter issue while working on addressing all the other problems. It’s literally just a decision to make, so I urge the community and organizing teams to make it.”

Arntz’s thread has received positive feedback and support, and other WCEU attendees have joined in with suggestions for improving the Q&A format.

“Many other open source conferences use apps that do more with Q&A, rating speakers, and even helping attendees schedule networking,” GoDaddy Developer Advocate Courtney Robertson said. “The favorited events export to iCal/gCal.”

Raymon Mens, a first-time-attendee at WCEU, said he was “negatively surprised by the Q&A part” for every session. “I would have preferred some more time for the speaker to go more in depth and not have a long Q&A that doesn’t add a lot.”

Jon Ang, an organizer for WordCamp Asia, said he is taking Arntz’s feedback into consideration for their next event, and future global leads for WCEU said they are also discussing these ideas for next year.

“At WordCamp San Francisco 2011 there was a Q&A session with Barry and it used a P2,” WordPress core committer Aaron Jorbin said. “For the off topic questions, others often chimed in. I think an MC with knowledge of the subject matter asking questions off this would be perfect.”

Changes will likely originate from WordCamp organizers who can recognize the existing problems with the current Q&A format and depart from tradition with a better way of bringing quality questions to speakers who wish to entertain them. Getting Q&A right may also become a stronger priority as WordPress’ community team evolves the WordCamp format to promote adoption, training, and networking. Based on the feedback on Arntz’s Twitter thread, it’s past time to update the Q&A format and WordCampers are eager to see it happen.

Inspiring the global community

The atmosphere was electric at WordCamp Europe (WCEU) 2023 in Athens, Greece, as WordPress celebrated its 20th anniversary and the opportunity to gather in person for inspiration and engagement. More than 2,500 individuals from 94 countries came together in person or through the live stream to participate in a remarkable three-day event (plus Contributor Day) filled with talks, networking, and learning opportunities. The event concluded on June 10 with a captivating keynote address by WordPress co-founder Matt Mullenweg, Executive Director Josepha Haden Chomphosy, and Gutenberg Product Architect Matías Ventura, who highlighted the advancements and upcoming milestones of the WordPress Project.

One significant update shared during the keynote was the successful reactivation of WordCamps. This time last year, we organized eight in-person WordCamps, and by the end of 2022, the number had risen to 23. Thanks to the enthusiasm and involvement of the WordPress community, we are already on track to organize 25 WordCamps in the first half of this year alone.

Josepha also emphasized the importance of the upcoming Community Summit on August 22-23. This in-person gathering brings contributors together across the WordPress open source project, fostering cross-project discussions vital for future growth and sustainability. For more information, visit the official Community Summit website.

Discussing the Five for the Future (5ftF) program, Josepha highlighted the impressive growth in active contributors and company pledges over the past year. She also underscored the expansion of the WordPress ecosystem, citing examples like Openverse, which now provides access to nearly 800 million images and audio files, all easily accessible in the Site Editor.

Another exciting addition to the WordPress repertoire is WP Playground. This new feature allows users to build WordPress applications instantly in the browser without needing a PHP server. This tool provides a swift and seamless experience, reducing the installation time from five minutes to a near-instantaneous 500 milliseconds. The application of WP Playground may seem like magic, but its practical application promises tangible and revolutionary benefits for WordPress users.

Matías Ventura then took the stage to share updates on Gutenberg. Through a visually stunning video built entirely with blocks, he showcased the six-year development journey and the transition from words to blocks to a final design. The upcoming WordPress version 6.3 will mark the completion of the first two phases of Gutenberg, consolidating all these features into a cohesive and user-friendly experience. He also highlighted the introduction of features such as the Wayfinder tool, Style Book, and the ability to save patterns, further empowering users to own their web presence and voice.

Following the keynote presentation, the WordPress leadership engaged in a lively Q&A session with the audience, further illustrating the continuous evolution within the WordPress Project. This session highlighted how the WordPress community innovates, iterates, and continually improves to create a better platform for today and tomorrow.

Join the global community and be part of the WordPress journey toward a brighter future!

This is the number 4 of our post series about the new direction we plan to take regarding plugin maintenance and evolutions. Our first post was about shared our new purpose, the second one explained how we think we can better organize the BuddyPress plugin, and the third one dealt with BuddyPress’ next features. It’s now time to analyze the feedback you shared with us here & there about BuddyPress’ user interfaces.

Key feedbacks about the BuddyPress UI

A standalone Modern theme!

10 years ago we took a very ambitious challenge when we made rendering BuddyPress templates into most WordPress themes optimal $\"👩🏼‍🎨\"$ . Being able to have a community area looking pretty nice, right away, into your site without having to change for a specific theme was and I believe is still great and quite impressive! By the way and even if we should overcome our dependency to jQuery (it’s on our todo list), our « Legacy » & « Nouveau » template packs already behave well with the next generation of themes (the block ones).

That being said, as John who regularly shares with us his will to build a brand new & modern theme $\"👨🏽‍🎨\"$ for the project, I feel we should build it as soon as possible & deeply explore the new possibilities provided by the WP Block API like I’ve announced in episode 3 of this series. We’ll make customizing your community area a piece of cake thanks to the WordPress Site Editor, you can count on us!

What about bringing back the BuddyPress Dashboard?

I agree we should also improve the BuddyPress Administration experience to let Members manage their community content and update it just like it’s possible on front-end. Moreover, I think this community member dashboard can act as a plan B or a fallback $\"🆘\"$ if something went wrong on the front side due to a JavaScript traffic jam, for example. This dashboard can also become the only community area if some site admins need to dedicate the front-end to top-down content and collaborate on it from the back-end.

Taking the community member dashboard road also re-opens the discussion about where administrators should manage and moderate BuddyPress settings and content. Before version 1.6, we used to put everything about BuddyPress inside a top level Administration menu. I believe we should come back to our initial idea and improve it. I like what John suggested a while ago about introducing a new column before the WP Admin menu to switch between the WordPress dashboard and a new BuddyPress dashboard, a bit like the column Slack adds to switch between your Slack spaces.

A BuddyPress Progressive Web App?

About the Mobile App (or the Desktop App) point $\"🤳🏿\"$ . I’d love, just like it’s possible to manage sites thanks to the WordPress project’s App, to have an App to manage my different BuddyPress profiles, starting with this one and this other one $\"😉\"$ .

I had the chance to participate to a demo of such an App for BuddyPress and I must admit I was really amazed by the fluidity it gave to user interactions and conversations. To be honest I doubt the project will have one in the near future, but if some of you are motivated to help the team explore this world, we’d be very happy to be shown the path. We will be making sure our next/first BuddyPress Block theme is optimized for all devices and exploring/testing the Progressive Web App (PWA) direction.

To sum-up about modernizing BuddyPress UIs, we’ll do our best to reach a first milestone before 2024 starts and we are very open to contributions!

Our next & final post of this series will analyze your feedback about the BuddyPress community & how we need to improve the tools we use to manage contributions to BuddyPress.

Whoop is an excellent biometrics bracelet I’ve been wearing for a few months since my friend Jaime Waydo joined as their CTO. After many years of being very in the Garmin 945 camp, I now do an Apple Ultra for all the smart stuff, and Whoop for all the great sleep, HRV, and recovery information that I use to be aware of my energy levels throughout the day, complemented by the Rise sleep and energy tracker app. This has been my ideal combo.

The founder and CEO of Whoop, Will Ahmed, interviewed me for their podcast, which we covered for a more mainstream audience my passion for open source and creating an open ecosystem for a web, how I got started as an entrepreneur, how Automattic hires, growth mindset and mental clarity, working with Joe Hudson as an executive coach, and day-to-day routine (or lack thereof, sometimes).

In this episode, Cory Miller and Corey Maass explore the delicate balance between professionalism and creativity in branding and marketing. They also discuss the importance of incorporating feedback into the product development process, utilizing user testing and testimonials to refine features and continually improve. The impact of their collaborative efforts has led to clarity around the momentum of partnering can bring to the creative process.

$\"🔗\"$ Mentioned in the show:

$\"🐦\"$ You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:

Transcript

Session 16 Corey & Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live

Apparently country music for me is all, um, ing. Yeah. Is all, uh, what was that show? Beverly Hillbillies. Oh man. Classic. You can tell I don’t listen to country music. Well, I’m

[00:00:50] Cory Miller: We got song Dance by Corey. This is a great way to start a webinar. Section 16, launching a product. What is on our agenda, my friend? I think I have some two things. Logo and website.

[00:01:10] Corey Maass: What’s on your, uh, for me, the big thing is I. Wound up doing a couple of pretty good re refactors again, of the plugin. Um, I, in in particular, I coded myself into a corner or had coded myself into a corner and then, um, putting things over.

So there’s, there’s sort of two versions of. In, in coding parlance you have instances of things, right? So there’s sort of two instances of the app. Um, one is sitewide and then one is per post or per. Per object. So attached to a podcast episode or attached to a post article or attached to something, you wanna have images, um, and then attached to the entire site, which in WordPress, there is no site thing.

Um, so there’s, you know, these sort of two instances of apps and I had done a lot of coding initially. Where I had abstracted out for these two instances and then done a bunch of refactoring based on our conversations for the site-wide instance, and then porting that back over to apply to posts and things.

Um, it all broke, um, or I encoded myself into a corner in a number of ways. So I wound up just ripping it all out and simplifying it. So we’re real close. Um, but I’m between, uh, allergies and, uh, life getting in the way. I’ve been feeling a little burned out. Um, I messaged you the other night like I have, uh, you can hear me sniffle and, um, Yeah, and in insomnia that I suffer from once in a while.

And so I’m staying up all night coding, which is not, I’m, I’m coding because I’m up all night. I’m not staying up all night coding. But it, because of that, I tend to like burn out and I’m, I’ve also, I’ve solved these problems four times now. I just need to keep cleaning them up and keep revising them. So the truth is I’m taking a couple of days away from the project.

But we’re close. I mean, I keep saying that week after week, but um, I do think that we’re, as soon as we get a logo locked down, which helps to find colors and styles, which helps to find the website, it also lets me go back into the app and plug in the logo in a couple of places and then, you know, it’s sort of branding complete version 0 0 1.

[00:04:01] Cory Miller: Okay. Um, that’s, that’s a great update. And then transitioning to the logo for a second. So it just made me think as I’m, I want, I want to talk through those logos that we were just talking through on Slack. I’ll screen share those in a second, but it just made me think I’m doing this horizontal one particularly.

Mm-hmm. With the designer. And what are the needs for plugin? Like, do we need just a logo mark, for instance? Brandmark, whatever do we need to, what, what kind of ratios and sizes do you need?

[00:04:33] Corey Maass: Right. I, the, the, the one that I, we were talking about the most just a minute ago is horizontal omg i m g next to each other.

sorry. Um, oh, now we know all your secrets. So, uh, This one. I like the font choice, but the graphic is kind of meh, like it’s been done before. I like the colors. Um, this one I like conceptually better and I dropped in a few notes. I honestly think that they should take the font from the first one and do this treatment to it, simplifying it, taking out the drop shadow.

And I liked your suggestion of switch or reversing it. Um, and then the color’s up here. Exactly. So it’s bigger and bold. Yeah. And then, and then honestly, I think that’s good enough. Um, okay. The, so yeah, if they swap out the, the, the font, cuz then it’ll be, the font feels more square, big and bold, simple. And, and at that point, what I guess I anticipate doing is if you’ve got OMG next to img, um, it’s easy enough to put one on top of the other.

So you might actually tell them like, you know, here are our notes and please com create one that is horizontal as they’re doing now, but, but one that’s stacked with OMG over img. So maybe the OMG is, is in color and the IMG is in black or something. Um, but honestly, that way we’ve got. I think we, we cover our bases, right?

We’ve got a horizontal version and we’ve got a essentially a square version. Hey, you’re wondering if I

I like that ride along. Oh yeah. There’s a, a subreddit called Entrepreneur Ride Along.

It’s not a great subreddit, but I, I like the, I like the gist of it and some of it there occasionally. There’s a good question or a good post.

And honestly, I, I will, I think instead of gray, it should be, it should be black and white, so it’s color going, but it, but we don’t, we can, I can change that when we get it. That’s fine. Yeah.

Okay. So yeah, use that font, flip it upside down. Um, remove the drop shadow. I don’t, I don’t like that. The 3D effect of it doesn’t do anything for me,

[00:08:16] Cory Miller: I’m looking at where are you seeing shadow, like right here.

Um, and then lastly, if they make those changes, um, create a version where the OMG is above the img.

So it’s, we, this is a, if this is a, a horizontal, ver horizontal version, we need a, yeah, it’s essentially a, a vertical version. Ooh, that’s

[00:08:53] Cory Miller: awesome. The top could be colors, um, g the bottom, and there’s a bar. Okay, cool. Yep.

And for anybody who asks, it’s, oh my gosh, images. Because we are non religiously affiliated.

I like the color choices. I like the feel of it and as we’ve talked about it, like we could, we could spend tons of time and effort, but good enough. It’s cute, it’s interesting. Like it, it does what I wanted. Um, whatever it was that I had in my head, I didn’t have any, you know, the requirements that were in my head.

It’s like bold and fun and interesting. The big, big heavy font like that to me says like O M G I M G, you know, it feels, it matches the name. Um, I like the colors vi, vibrant. Interesting. So

[00:10:21] Cory Miller: I almost wonder, like on the vertical one, it’s like leave a little black on the omg. Mm-hmm. Like the bars maybe split a little bit.

Okay, let me, that’s in, that’s in progress now. Great. Next thing I had was website and, um, I don’t think you’re in the space to be able to do this, but, um, just focused on logo and I only had time for logo, so I didn’t get website going, but the, I’m gonna go back on pod squeeze K card. Text content and I’ll just start getting buckets of text

Yeah, I think if you wanna even just do it, um, flat, so on, you know, open up a Google Doc or something. Let’s look at the few different, um, websites that we’ve bookmarked for design and content. Um, and we found this awesome new site this morning, um, called, where’d it Go? Jelly Laid and their their welcome screen.

Uh, how do we want to, how, how does one say it? Uh, we can be, we can be inspired by. Inspired by, so, Yeah, I mean, and, and big props to Jelly La um, j e l l y l a d e, whether, um, whether we’re we, we borrow from them or not. It’s a really neat site, well laid out, well thought out. Um, and there’s a number of overlap.

Number of overlaps where they, they’re creating screenshots and beautiful screenshots. So they’re one of those kinds of tools. We’re doing something a little different, but, you know, some of the UI elements end up being the same, creating, um, specific sized images and stuff like that, just like we were doing for Crop Express.

So, um, but I like the, what I realized on, on looking at their site, um, where is it about, So here I can share. Maybe don’t need to do subtitles, I need to share the screen.

Um, so they’re, they’re heavy on listing out features, not benefits. So, um, but we did like, uh, some of the, the wording. Um, for your website and social media, um, that resonated. So the, so anyway, we’ve got that guy and we’ve got, um, what did you say? Squeeze was the other one we really liked the look of. Yeah.

And then, um, this one I just really liked. Again, running with the, the big, bold colors. Um, I just liked the big, bold fonts, so I think this might be a treatment that we look at doing, um, when we actually sit down and design our site. But it’s, uh, you know, if so, Yes. I don’t think we should sit here and, and try to actually mock up the site right now, but if we want to create essentially a, a, just a flat doc, because I mean, most standard websites, you, you have a hero era area with a title, a paragraph, and a call to action testimonials.

You’ve got, you know, list the three benefits kind of thing. I mean, most of these sites are pretty. Have similar sections. So I think if we go through and we can lock down just some wording. Um, and then once we have the colors and things from the logo set up, like we could just, we have text. We could just drop in.

[00:14:51] Corey Maass: with you. Cool. I’ll stop sharing. You could share a dot.

Yeah, create professional images. Love that. One of the things that I reacted to, I realized thinking about the tagline, um, from, um, jelly La was there’s those create beautiful something, something and, you know, I’m like, well, beauty is at the behi in the eye of the beholder. And I always pry really hard not to.

Fall into words that are, it’s like the, the tagline that every, uh, every website tries at least once of the, the, the dot.dot that you’ll actually use, you know, and stuff like that. And it’s all just fluffy. So it’s like, I, I, I think you and I have talked about this before, like we’d rather it actually said what it did.

[00:17:19] Cory Miller: I’m trying to go back and find, because you, you made some points, I think in Slack

It’s like at some point, you know, you wanna, uh, uh, a clever turn of phrase tends to be the big headline and then, excuse me. Um, and then we’ve got that little. Paragraph underneath. So some of this could get ex extended. Um, the other thing we can do since the world, this is the world we live in now. Uh, we open up chat g p t and we say generate 10.

[00:19:18] Cory Miller: you know what? It’s not on here. It’s over here, I think.

[00:20:27] Cory Miller: right here. I like this one. Turn your content into captivating social images. Yep. Right there.

said rewrite them with using puns or light humor. And so version two, humor. You ready for this? I actually really like these. Don’t let your social media be a blur.

You just tell it to be funny. Yeah. I said, well, I said Add, add a pun or light humor. Words are great. Images are greater. That’s honestly fantastic. Yeah. Like it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s not funny, but it’s Right. The kind of

like, to me, words are great, but images are greater as the, the big headline in the hero area. And then below that it’s saying something like, Use your word, you know, turn your WordPress content into valuable, shareable, professional images,

because I, yeah, I, one of the concepts that came up right is I, I really like the idea of. You’ve already done the work, and this is what we’ve been talking about since Crop Express, which is you’ve, you’ve set up a website, great. You’ve written a blog post. Great. That’s a lot of work. That’s a lot of effort.

That’s a lot of thought. And, and how we, we jumped from Crop Express to OMG is the idea of how do you, how do you not only, um, Make a featured image more compelling, but how do you take the content that you’ve already written, the work you’ve already done to add more value? And how do you make an image, um, what do I wanna say?

[00:23:13] Cory Miller: You, you created content for your WordPress website. Now you need a package and showcase it.

winners there, our words are great, but images are greater. And let your images do the talking.

[00:24:29] Cory Miller: Yeah, that’s our. I love how we do this. So problem is you create content on your WordPress website. Now you want to showcase it, make it shine. The problem is you have to go outta WordPress, you have to do all these, you have to have all these other tools

They often are just a nice image and you rely on. The headline or bullet points or quote elsewhere to draw the user in.

[00:25:39] Cory Miller: So you created the content. Now make it sizzle, sparkle, shine.

I keep talking about the loop and I, I keep coming back to that and I don’t still don’t know how to explain that, but it’s the, like, you create, you create words that are compelling. You find an image that’s compelling, but the, the problem as it exists now for most websites is if you share a blog post, there’s a, there’s an image that’s compelling, but it doesn’t have any of the words in it.

And then you’re relying on the headline and an excerpt. You know, you’re relying on Facebook to, to present the whole thing. And if somebody just sees an image or fails to skim the little bit, the little bitty headline under the image, they’re not gonna, they only get half the half the compellingness of it.

And so it’s like taking, taking your content and, and combining it with your featured image. It’s like one plus one equals three kind of situation where it’s like adding a big fold headline on top of that’s compelling, on top of a featured image that’s compelling, is more compelling than just sharing the image and the headline.

[00:27:14] Cory Miller: a content, now you wanna make it shine. Problem is you have to go outta WordPress. You have workflow one. Uh, the internal WordPress stuff doesn’t really sell the content. Plus they should, they should help entice images, should help entice people summarize and entice something like to get ’em back to the site.

Typing, boring, featured, featured images don’t create intrigue. They don’t sell the content.

[00:28:26] Cory Miller: the problem is it goes outta your workload. Boring featured images or afterthoughts Plus, they should make it. They should. They should be

[00:28:35] Corey Maass: enticing. Yeah. It’s like there’s lots of different ways that an image can. Add value. And I know like we are, we might be thinking about it more deeply than people often do, but I think maybe that’s the point, right?

Like a lot of the time now people like you’ll see a, if I go to Medium and I see an article about writing code, there’s some clip art of. A person behind a laptop or of a robot, and it’s like, then, then why even have the image? And I know why, like human image, human brains are wired to be attracted to images, but, but there’s no value added there.

[00:29:37] Cory Miller: features. Stay in your workflow? No more boring afterthoughts.

We’re, we’re, we’re, we’re somewhere here. We’re we’re in the range. Yep. We’ll

[00:30:05] Cory Miller: work on the features next, but. Stay in your workflow.

Something here. No more boring afterthought, smell images. Stale, boring, stale, afterthought. Like there’s probably something here we can refine. It’s like put, put your images to work.

Something to the effect of like, Born and still is opposite. Active, helpful prompting is better. Like that’s where we come in with the, uh,

because we’re trying to show ’em a vision of what could be better. Like right now it’s just boring. They’re afterthoughts,

but you could transform that to help. That’s where we go. Sell the sizzle or shine.

[00:31:36] Cory Miller: word, is to keep all these words, because I think we’ll put a list of things. Oh, here it is. The before and

[00:31:43] Corey Maass: after. Nice. Yep. Nice. Yep. Morning. Thoughts. Still homogenized.

[00:32:03] Corey Maass: space. Checking a box. Placeholder. Placeholder. No more placeholders.

So we Wow. You, you’ve seen those, uh, Home pages that have a, like a slider before and after. And on the left we show, you know, an image of a landscape and a, you know, 10 places to go camping. But as it’s presented in Facebook with just a big, big image that’s pretty, but it has no value. And the headline that has no treatment and then you swipe and it shows the.

Our treatment of the image with a background and, and, uh, a color treatment to it. And then a clever font or an interesting font and like, so we do a bunch of those where it’s like, here’s your boring placeholder, nothing. And here, even if we just, even if that’s all you give us, here’s, here’s how we make it Compelling.

[00:33:35] Cory Miller: I like this before, Hey, if there, this is a wishlist, not a, but If there was a sample, you know, it’s almost like, here’s your. Here’s your social graph before and, and paid a bar. He goes, pull the bar down. Transformation.

[00:33:56] Corey Maass: Wow. Wow. Yes. Yeah. That was the kind of UI I was picturing. Like if you go to, they’re the, they’re the, the little web apps that are like, we’re moving a background or whatever, and you, and they have a slider and so you see the image and as you, you move a, move a bar, Back and forth.

And so yeah, in our case, we’ll, we’ll have it, you might move the bar up and down or something, but that matches our logo. That’s amazing.

[00:34:22] Cory Miller: See and pull it down and we can share like a post status. We’ve got this, you know, we’re using this, so like before they, we looked at it sucks. Pull it down. Here it is like, yep.

Here’s what we’ve done to showcase, make the content shine, entice people, comp compelling, I love that word compelling, you said. Mm-hmm. What? Boring to compelling. Boring To

[00:34:49] Corey Maass: compelling. Yeah. And again, I love the idea of, of valuable too. I put engaging. Yeah.

Because it’s, yeah, we, we, we take, and it’s also, we take these pieces. And put them together. And that to me is where the value comes from. And it’s like, so even if, even if you only ever see it, just the image, you don’t see the headline because the headline can be in the image, then it, then there’s, um, the image itself, it’s more valuable.

Like that’s not, that’s not the only use case. And it might not even be the most common use case, but like one of the things that. You talked about early on was, you know, creating slides essentially, or slide shows. And so being able to create images that have bullet points that summarize a post or quotes that summarize a quote, a post, you know, so there, there’s, there can actually, you know, if it’s um, if you interview somebody and they are really inspiring and you create a bunch of these images and you put them on your social media every [00:36:00] day, like, You are inspiring.

[00:36:05] Cory Miller: it makes me think when you were saying that about the, I was trying to capture those again, even though we’ve done it a bunch. So like, can you see my little cursor here? Mm-hmm. In the copy, in the, uh, text editor part. It’d be awesome to have these. Oops, this touch, not that touch choices.

You know what I’m talking about, like here, um, bullets. Numbers, check boxes, because when you said that 50 places to visit mm-hmm. Here’s 10 in their check boxes. Mm-hmm. The point is where I kind of default to, but I wonder if there’s a way to do so. Like the arrows.

You already know all this bullets. No, it’s I’m capture it. We need it captured.

[00:37:10] Cory Miller: God, you read my mind, but I didn’t wanna say it because I was like, I don’t wanna,

[00:37:15] Corey Maass: Hey, if we, if we’re, we’re starting a product with the OMG in the name, like we have to double down on the whole cute, uh, style, you know, emojis and butterflies. And

[00:37:30] Cory Miller: I’ve been working with Lindsay on, on some of her work for my marketing assistant, and it did dawned on me.

She was like, it was. Uh, her personality is fun. Like she likes to have fun. Mm-hmm. And like, there’s, you’re not feeling fun here. And so it was like reintroducing that and I think mm-hmm. Uh, I’m gonna capture this too, is like, make

that’s an advertising campaign right there, like a whole bunch of ads that are like, do people want to go to the we to your website? Make your website a party that everybody wants to get go to. That’s really fun.

[00:38:42] Cory Miller: think we got a lot here. I think the benefits we can, we got enough to, like, we can put this back in chat, G B T two, but we just need three benefits and Yep. Um,

[00:38:56] Corey Maass: which we ha we have four. I mean, you can always have more, but Yep. Stay within your workflow. Convert these. Well, and it’s, and we, and I think it’ll end up being, um, before and after is like the first big benefit.

And then we could do the three underneath of stay. Stay within your workflow, stay in the zone. Create more value, all those things.

[00:39:45] Cory Miller: makes me think, I’ve been doing the, uh, party emoticon, mo emoji. Mm-hmm. I’m like this little party thing. All

This might be the most, um, productive, midlife crisis anybody has ever had. Bless you, dude,

[00:40:09] Cory Miller: about four to five years ago, this has been really timely. Saying, I’m outta it. I’m just saying

[00:40:18] Corey Maass: I’ll take it now. We’ve learned to manage it anyway. Um, great test. Well, uh, homepages need testimonials, which we’ll add once we, uh, have them, the features can, we can fill out as we go.

[00:40:44] Cory Miller: Well, thanks for doing this. This is, I work best like this, planning off, you know, collaborating. Sure. So I appreciate this. Okay. See, do I have access to Omgm? I know I do.

[00:41:05] Corey Maass: I don’t. Yes, you do. You have your, uh, Corey Miller account and then, um, so yeah, it’s, it’s just Beaver Builder. So go drop in blocks or, um, or I can, and then the biggest thing, I mean like any of these websites, uh, Again, the, once the logo is locked down, and maybe we already have the colors, but we can use those colors to define what the, what the boxes on the page look like.

And then, um, the actual images always, usually takes me the longest of like, okay, you want screen, you want product screenshots. Go create the perfect product setup so that you can then take the perfect product screenshots. So, But I need to actually finish the damn thing. Wanna do

[00:42:13] Corey Maass: Well, and I’m, yeah, I’m, there’s been stuff that for me because I’m, this is how I work half the time anyway. Right? Like, I build and I rebuild, and I rebuild. And the whole time I’m thinking, and I’m, that’s why I keep trying to throw stuff at you or WeChat during the week, um, because it helps me redefine the product and, and wording and stuff like that.

And so it’s things that, like at one point we said, what do, what do we call it? And so in, in my mind, the, um, like the name of the company and the name of the product is O M G I M G. Um, which I kind of, it makes me giggle when it’s like people talk about like I B M or cvs and so it’s, it’s just way more letters, but it’s still like, sound it tongue in cheek in a tongue in cheek way.

[00:43:12] Cory Miller: but if it makes you smile, that’s a really good thing, like Right. Hearing that it makes you smile too, because cvs, by the way, is my favorite story ever.

[00:43:22] Cory Miller: I’m anti Walgreens, our insurance. Ooh, seriously. I like Walgreens with the number two cvs.

It’s clean like an Apple store for a pharmacy and I don’t know, tape some of them that’s clean. Uh, chips. Yep. Weird dehydrated products in the front anyway. Okay.

[00:43:47] Corey Maass: Yeah, I, I’m a, I’m a sucker for those kinds of stores for sure. Uh, little bit of everything. I love a, do I love a good dollar store? Um, five below extremely dangerous for me to walk in.

[00:44:04] Corey Maass: or we should. Um, but so the other thing that, um, I, uh, have been. It’s like, okay, so I’m, I’m not yet using the product, but as I’m building the product, I’m thinking about using it, et cetera. Right? And so, um, one of the other things that I realized I was doing was, so O M G I M G, name of the company, name of the product, um, OMG Images is the asset that it creates, right?

So it’s like, turn your, turn your image into an OMG image. And that’s where like when we did a demo whenever it was, Um, you know, a few, a few calls ago you were like, okay, change, change the buttons to say, you know, create new whatever it was. And I’m like, oh, okay. So, so in most of those places now, we, we are saying like, create a new i OMG image, or here is a list of your OMG images, because it’s basically any image that’s been enhanced by OMG img.

I love it. And we are going to be OMG people because we’ve been also been enhanced by OMG I mg. This is

[00:45:21] Cory Miller: totally silly, but in the vein of creativity, ob absurd. Of course the t-shirt on the front might be OMG in the back is, I don’t know. That’s the silly thing. But I was like, I love this. The bar coming down.

[00:45:43] Corey Maass: that front. Oh, I, what I want is the, the T-shirt. I’m gonna stand up here some, the Panera, the T-shirt where the graphic is, the whole thing. And it’s going to be, it’s going to be omg, img, you know, but, but the whole front of the site or whole front of the, sure.

Like, when I was doing conbon, I wanted to be very clean and corporate because I was, I’m like, that’s, I think that’s gonna be my market. You know, it’s not fun and creative. It’s project management. Um, and eventually I, I started trying to, like a lot of, a lot of WordPress products have. Little critters, you know, little creatures, logos and stuff.

So eventually I introduced these very austere birds that I had designed, um, anyway, so at some point maybe we need something like that, but it’s like the, the conbon shirts were black polos with the little logo here and I did have it pretty big on the back cuz I’m like across word camp us. You need to be able to see it.

But with this, we’re going the other action as big and as bold as possible, you know? Love it.

[00:47:20] Corey Maass: duh. People like, yeah, that’s what I didn’t, I, I, I, what I should have said to chat G b t is take these 10 taglines and make dad jokes outta them.

Let’s see what we got. Um, but anyway, um, so yeah, we can sign off for today. I, I would task you with, um, Jump into the homepage if you’ve got time, you know, and or even just revise and finalize some of that wording. Um, maybe show it to Lindsay, see what she thinks. And cuz ideally by the time we get to that homepage, we are just plugging it in and going, oh, we need a new section.

Uh, I lost you. Can you hear me? Yes. Sorry, I lost you for a second. Yeah, I’m Panera’s they’re doing their lunch rush, so I think the wifi is starting to brown out.

[00:48:24] Cory Miller: Ison broccoli, uh, chitter soup for me cuz that’s my favorite. All right.

[00:48:30] Corey Maass: Thanks brother. Shout product, product placement. Uh, shout out to Panera.

[00:48:35] Cory Miller: yeah. Sponsored by Panera. Today everybody skips unlimited broccoli. Dip those chips in the broccoli cheese

[00:48:46] Cory Miller: Hey, let’s talk about working camps at some point. Um, probably in the next two weeks I’ll be ready to make some, uh, hotel arrangements

[00:49:03] Corey Maass: plans for that. Yeah, I’ve got it sort of on the long list. I’m gonna be taking a train down, which will be fun. Oh, you’ve read my mind.

[00:49:12] Cory Miller: Ask you that. Oh, I wish I could do that here. I wish I could do that. We have Amtrak. It just takes 13 hours to get to Dallas, which like seriously, I’ve seen all of this part of Oklahoma in depth.

[00:49:26] Corey Maass: Yeah, I’m sure. But yeah, everybody, uh, we’ll, we’ll start. This is, this is the first plug for, um, you know, O M G I M G is going to be, uh, revealed in many ways, uh, at Word Camp Pass with the brightest shirts you’ve ever seen. Love it.

This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.

When I shared 20 years of WordPress community at WordCamp Lisboa, I touched on the future of the community. Today I elaborate on that part.

When we choose a spouse, we choose someone who matches our values. When we choose a home we choose a space that matches our needs. We look for all the green flags, all the boxes to be checked, and we don’t accept red flags. We say no to cockroaches, no to cheaters, no to leaky plumbing.

When it comes to a job, though, we take what we can get. We fear losing, we let red flags slide and when it’s bad, we still stick around and hope it gets better. We tell ourselves it’s the only option we have.

We don’t imagine that there could be real fulfillment. We believe this is it: the 9 to 5, the endless grind. Work for the man and hope you end up with a retirement plan, at best. Hold on to that job – you never know how far and how hard you could fall without it.

A space without hierarchy, a space where everyone has a voice, a space where inclusion and diversity are virtues seems like a smoke dream.

And so it went for me. Deep in the work, sleep, die cycle. Thinking this was it. I kissed my dreams goodbye, succumbed to being a slave to my paycheck because after all, I have a family to feed. Priorities, Amy. Priorities.

Discovering WordPress

Sometimes you aren’t even looking and you trip over something, not knowing what you’ve stumbled into. Then suddenly five years have passed and you have lasting friendships and a whole a$$ career. Your kids are fed, your bills are paid and you are happy.

And that’s how it happened for me. I did what I had to, grabbed what job I could, worked hard and then got shoved face first into the lap of WordPress, without a clue what I was getting into. Without a clue that my life had just changed. I was actually quite angry. I was supposed to be promoted from my wildly underpaid tech support job to a wildly underpaid live chat supervisor job. How DARE they change their minds and pigeonhole me as a WordPress Tech!!?

But the reality unfolded rather quickly after that. That when it comes to WordPress, there are only green flags. There is only a match in values. There is only a world where people’s human needs are met.

The need for community, the need to be part of something bigger than you, the need for connection, the need to learn, to grow, to watch something else grow. The need for one step to lead to the next, where paths are abundant and there are no dead ends. I had no idea what I had just been shoved into.

I made the best of it. I helped form a new WordPress dedicated support team. I fixed websites, I trained other agents, I determined policies and practices, and I started going to WordPress.org team meetings. At first I thought that I was just supporting the endeavors of my employer, but the truth is, it was much more than that.

Finding the Community

My first meeting was with the Hosting team. I hopped on Zoom unaware that I would already know every face in the room. Unaware that I would be going to these meetings every week for the next five years. Unaware that I’d become a Team Rep and get my fingerprints all over the Open Source Project. Unaware that I would find friends, learn so much, build skills and be offered jobs. Unaware that there were 30,000 people on the other end of the keyboard, and 400 million opportunities.

I stayed in that job for years, and I extended myself way beyond my technical support role. I had ideas for how to support WordPress users and brought them to the leadership team. They were interested, though not completely onboard, but still gave me the greenlight to go ahead and try.

I started offering developer services to their enterprise WordPress customers, instead of turning them away saying “we don’t do that here”. The customers were into it. They wanted and they needed that type of support. I stumbled upon more and more customers that needed developer help and offered them that help. I got my teammates involved. We were seeing results and the results were good.

Happy customers, new streams of revenue and increased customer retention. Instead of being angry and at a loss, tech support customers had real options for resolution. They were willing to pay extra and they kept coming back for more. They praised us and our work.

The VP of product and the CEO started noticing. They decided to mentor me and trained me in product development, agile software development and leadership. I started to flush out user journeys, product packages and made a two-year strategy for the growth of the developer service that is now a full blown product offering. After the first year they had me do a win loss report, and we found that the service had earned revenue just through word of mouth, before it was even established. Boom.

And yet I was struggling to buy food. I was living under the poverty line. I was being praised, but not paid. Business owners take heed, this is how you lose good employees.

I was a tech support agent who was helping run a team, fixing customer problems, developing a product, pushing code, creating business strategies and making revenue for the org. All while starving. All while witnessing my developer friends at the same company make six figures. I became disgruntled, I became more vocal about it, and I lost the favor of leadership by complaining – despite the fact that my complaints were valid. Lesson learned. After a while, I was just too unhappy with what I was paid for my numerous roles and quit out of frustration.

I had no idea what was going to happen next. I started studying code and blogging. I was elected into a Team Rep position on the WordPress Open Source Project. I practiced making WordPress themes and plug-ins. I learned Symfony, I learned some Javascript and Python, I learned how to have faith in myself and how to acquire clients outside of the stream of tech support. I became a Meetups organizer and got involved in WordCamps. I started sharing skills that I had learned and had used to survive in the tech field.

I never wanted to be a freelancer or a web developer though. I actually prefer doing system administration over web development – so I kept looking for a full-time gig. After a few months, I landed a job as a WordPress Tech Lead. I got to work with design and development and build out pipelines, work with servers, clients and code.

Then Covid happened, and I think everyone can agree what a nightmare that was. I got hit with the first strain of Covid and was so, so sick. I couldn’t move for three months. I lost my job and I was too sick to care. I was blessed that my colleagues in the WordPress community cared, though. They supported me and some of them even prayed for my recovery. One of my hosting teammates suggested applying to a job with his employer. I said “alright whatever”, found an easy tech-support role that I definitely could do and applied.

They interviewed me and turned me away, saying I was overqualified. Bummer. Then a few weeks later, I got a phone call from them offering me an interview for a different position. A job as a Web Development Manager. I liked the idea despite my wicked imposter syndrome, and after some rounds of interviews, they offered me the job. I was there for two years and I loved my team. I was working with designers and developers, leadership and marketers. I got to work with servers, various tech stacks, DevOps pipelines, design systems, accessibility and SEO.

From there, I was recruited into a Solutions Architect position. Then I was recruited again for a Developer role. I didn’t apply anywhere, I wasn’t looking and all I did was work hard, invest in my skills, be open to options and oh yeah – get involved with WordPress.

Now I keep picking up clients and I have more work than I can realistically handle. I’m going to have to start hiring other people to help me out soon. Maybe I’ll file for an LLC and take all that knowledge and experience, all that momentum and roll it up into one big future as a boss lady. Bring the WordPress values I feel so aligned with to the table on MY terms. The tech industry needs more boss ladies.

I don’t honestly know what’s coming next, but I know I don’t need to worry because I have the right community, the right skills, the right resources and endless opportunities.

All because of one little package of code. All because of the amazing people behind it. All because of WordPress.

This Week at WordPress.org (June 5, 2023)

News

WordPress.com Plan	Payment Fees
WordPress.com Commerce	0%
WordPress.com Business	2%
WordPress.com Premium	4%
WordPress.com Personal	8%
WordPress.com Free	10%

Community	Welcoming a community starts with the Smitten Kitchen website. From there it continues to Facebook, Instagram, and other social channels. If the Smitten Kitchen website had no comments or put the community off solving Captcha puzzles, community engagement elsewhere might be lower.
SEO	Recipe sites are similar to many other niches where sites compete fiercely for search rank. Sites that ignore Google’s guidance that they value user comments, are dropping the ball, especially as managing comments with Akismet is so easy.
Reputation	If Smitten Kitchen were to allow spam comments it would impair the reputation of the site and its creators.
Moderation	Smitten Kitchen’s website doesn’t have a staff committed to moderation. Having Akismet on hand to automate the moderation of the comments means that the site can be lively and active without constant supervision to make sure it stays clean of spam.

Billing	“It affects our customers – our billing model is based on the size of the account. And we don’t want to bill them for garbage. We only want to bill them for real subscribers, so it’s a significant factor.”
Creator’s Email Reputation	“Another downstream effect is they’re sending to these email lists. And if the list isn’t great (includes fake/spam subscribers) then their send reputation goes down. And the deliverability reputation is huge. It has huge ramifications for the business”
ConvertKit’s Reputation	“If our customer’s send reputation goes down (because of spam), ConverKit’s reputation goes down as well. So there are some pretty significant effects that would happen if we didn’t do anything.”
Little Fires Everywhere	“We were sort of putting out fires. All of a sudden some IP addresses of ours were not delivering well and customers noticed. They see their emails landing in spam, which is horrible for them. That’s when we’d catch it – after the damage had been done. And there was a period of time when that was happening more than we liked. So that’s when we started implementing Akismet.”

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